Trudy Gold
The Role of the Jews in an Expanding Empire
Trudy Gold - The Role of the Jews in an Expanding Empire
- [Instructor] Over to you, Trudy.
- Okay, well good afternoon everyone in London from cold, grey, dank London. And a very, very happy mew year to you as we begin the course on the Hapsburgs. And it’s interesting why, did Wendy and myself, why did we decide that we wanted to spend the next three months looking at the Hapsburgs? And I think I should mention this is only going to be through the history courses, William and myself, and sometimes Patrick and David. There’s going to be lots of other events, current affairs, et cetera, et cetera, music. But I feel very, very strongly that the world is going through so many huge changes and we are all feeling, I think, very antsy about things. And I do happen to believe that by studying the past, we can actually have a pattern that emerges. And for a long time, I really wanted to look at the Hapsburg lands in depth because as William explained to you yesterday, and I’m sure many of you know this, the Hapsburg Empire was the largest empire in Europe. And of course by the 19th century, early 20th century up until the first World War, it ruled over many of the largest areas of Jewish population as well as over many nationalities. So in this next few weeks, we’ll be looking at the Jews of Slovakia, the Jews of Prague, the Jews of Hungary, the Jews of Galicia, which becomes part of the Hapsburg Empire. So it gives us a way of holding it all together. And as William explained to you yesterday, it was held together by one dynasty.
And of course Vienna, what can I say about Vienna? And we’d be spending a lot of time on 19th and 20th century Vienna. William said that if there was one time in history that he’d really like to go back to, he’d like to go back to Vienna at the turn of the century. Between 1881 and 1914, I would imagine that Vienna was one of the most exciting places in the world to be. Robert Wistrich used the phrase, “the Janus face of modernity.” Karl Kraus called it “an experimental station "on the way to the end of the world.” You’ve got to imagine the capital city of a huge empire. And those of you that haven’t visited Vienna, you really, really must go. Today, I believe it’s for me, it’s a city of ghosts. But as William talked about so many things yesterday, I’m going to show you a few pictures of what will be coming up, so that I can really give you a flavour. Many of you know this very well of just some of the characters who were in Vienna around the turn of the century. So if you don’t mind, Judy, can we have a look at some of the slides please? Yes, that is a marvellous view of Vienna. Beautiful, beautiful Vienna. That is the Ringstrasse and Patrick’s giving a whole lecture on that, the building of the Ringstrasse. And can I mention that every day, Sigmund Freud, his constitutional was to walk the Ringstrasse and it’s where all the wealthy had their wonderful mansions. Can we go on, Judy?
There is the Hotel Sacher. William yesterday talked about cake shops. He talked, and I’m going to show you in a minute picture of the Cafe Demel. Now the Cafe Sacher was one of the greatest hotels in Europe. And of course Sachertorte, which many of you relish was developed at the Cafe Sacher. But it was also the place where Crown Prince Rudolph, the son of Emperor Franz Joseph and the Empress Sisi, he spent much of his spare time. It was really a den for waste rules, for alcoholism, for drug addiction, the seedy side of life. But Vienna is also the city of Strauss waltzes, it is the city of gaiety. So let’s go on please, Judy. There you see, that is the inside of the Cafe Demel. And just imagine at any one time, and you can go all the way through on this, the Vienna Circle met in the Cafe Demel. Can you just imagine the kind of people who sat there and had their wonderful cream cakes, drunk their beautiful coffee, maybe their schnapps. One of the reasons cafe society though was so popular in Vienna was why? Because they couldn’t afford to heat their rooms. That is the facade of beautiful Vienna. Remember, the the phrase of Karl Kraus “an experimental station "on the way to the end of the world.” But that is a very beautiful setting. And yes, the hot chocolate and the cakes are absolutely wonderful. Can we go on, Judy?
Let’s have a look at some of the characters. There of course is the wonderful Opera House in Vienna. I remember the first time I went, I was so excited to go to Vienna and we were going to the Opera House, and I’d seen Professor Robert Wistrich the week before. And the day I was due to leave, a postcard fell onto my mat. And it was a picture of the Opera House shrouded in swastikas with a little note saying, “enjoy yourself”. By that he meant never forget the darkness of Vienna, but also the beauty. Can we go on please? There of course is Klimt and the Secession School, which of course Patrick will be lecturing on. Yes, I think we can go on. There is Klimt from the cover of Patrick’s book on him, in his artist smock. There is, yes, thank you. Let’s go on to Arthur Schnitzler. Arthur Schnitzler, close friend of Herzl. A brilliant playwright, whose most famous work is “La Ronde”. And of course “La Ronde” is the story of sexual peccadillos in Vienna. He also wrote a lot about the road of the Jew in Vienna because in his time 10% of Vienna was Jewish. I want you to imagine all the people coming to the centre of the empire, by 1900, 2 million people living in Vienna, 200,000 of them were Jewish. They came from Bohemia, Moravia, Galicia, from all the outlying parts of the empire to make their way in wonderful Vienna and Arthur Schnitzler was one of those. Can we go on please? Yes, that is Otto Wagner. Otto Wagner, very important in the secession school. Again, Patrick will be lecturing on him. He of course was a great architect. Can we go on?
Yes, and there you have the dark side of Vienna, Karl Lueger, who was elected from 1896 to 1906 on an anti-Semitic ticket. And of course a young man comes to Vienna just as Karl Lueger is quitting his post. And that young man was Adolf Hitler. Can we go on please? There of course is the great Mahler who converted in to be able to conduct at the Opera House. You will hear far more of those characters. And there is Trotsky sitting in a park in Vienna. He was there between 1907 and 1914. He didn’t like what he called the “coffee house of politicians,” but Trotsky was there. Please, Judy, go on. There you have Karl Kraus, the brilliant satirist, who of course wrote “Die Fackel” and there will be much more on him later on. And there you have the great Sigmund Freud. I remember one of the best lectures I ever went to on Freud. It was opened in this way. It doesn’t matter whether Freud was right or wrong, we all use his language. In many ways, he is one of the architects of the modern world by making us go inside ourselves to think about all the other forces within us and of course was so hated by the conservative elements in Vienna. Sigmund Freud, one of the most extraordinary characters and actually Professor Piman will begin to talk about him this week. So can we go on again, Judy?
And there you have one of my favourite characters, Stefan Zweig. And if you haven’t read Stephan Zweig or Joseph Roth, and I know this came up on the questions to William, you really must read them because there are so many books that can accompany this course. William’s given you a list of history. I think the best book on the Jews is the “Jews of Vienna in the Age of Franz Joseph” by Robert Wistrich. You can have that on your list, but read Stefan Zweig, read the books he wrote, read Joseph Roth and the books he wrote, read Schnitzler. It will give you a sort of feeling of the kind of world that they all came from. So this is really to wet your appetite for the future. But don’t forget, we’re also going to be looking at Prague, Budapest, and many of the other towns and cities of the Hapsburg Empire. It was Bismarck who said that the Jews were the kind of fizz that made society zing. And in many ways, when you get to the modern period in Viennese history, it was the Jews that pushed all the boundaries. Now, before I go back into history, I’m going to read something I’ve read to you before because why on earth aren’t we spending so much time looking at mediaeval history? Because I really think in order to understand Jewish history, it’s no good just looking at anti-Semitism, looking at Zionism, you need to examine the role of the Jew for 2000 years in order to get a notion of the kind of factors that are actually challenging us today. So this is of course from Yuri Slezkine’s brilliant book “The Jewish Century”. And it’s got its plus points and it’s got its negative points. But if you want to understand how the Jews came to this description, I think we need to really begin in mediaeval times.
So this is what he said, “The modern age is the Jewish age, "and the 20th century in particular is the Jewish century,” that would also apply to the 21st century. “Modernization is about everyone becoming urban, "mobile, literate, articulate, intellectually intricate, "physically fastidious and occupationally flexible. "It’s about learning how to cultivate people and symbols, "not fields or herds. "It’s about pursuing wealth for the sake of learning, "learning for the sake of wealth, "and both wealth and learning for their own sake. "It’s about transforming peasants and princes "into merchants and priests, "replacing inherited privilege with acquired prestige "and dismantling social estates "for the benefits of individuals, nuclear families, "and book reading tribes or nations. "Modernization, in other words, "is about everyone becoming Jewish.” And I think it’s important because what has created this mobile, flexible people? What are the forces that took this people from their native home, from Judea, which of course was renamed Palestine and through them into a world that is going to become increasingly hostile, and what did that world actually do to them? Now, Helen Fry gave us four brilliant lectures on the origins of anti-Judaism in Christianity and how gradually Jesus is de-Judaized. I’m not going to speak anymore about that, but it’s the other side of the coin that I want to talk about. It’s very important to remember that up until the Council of Nicaea it in 325, when Constantine makes Christianity the religion of Rome, there were various sets within Christianity that were at war with each other. They debated whether Jesus was divine, whether he was semi divine, the whole notion of the Trinity, et cetera.
The point is it’s codified in 325 and Christianity is more or less expunged of its Jewishness. Yes, it takes on the Hebrew Bible, which it calls the Old Testament, it canalises the scriptures, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, et cetera. And a new religion is created. Now, whether it was created by Paul or by those who come after him is a very debatable issue. But the point is the Christianity of Constantine has very little to do with the religion of the Jews. Because another point to make, when the Jews are exiled, and remember there was already a diaspora in Babylon, what happens is that Judaism and Christianity really part company because it leads to the period of the Talmud where you can make the case that the rebbe encased the Jews in a wall of law. And one of the great debates for you to consider is how is it that the Jews survived for over 2000 years as a landless people, but very distinct people. And to an extent, ironically, it is about the hostility of the Christian church because by the time you get to Constantine, not only has Jesus been de-Judaized, although the moral law is encapsulated in Christianity, you no longer have to be an observer of the commandments because Jesus has fulfilled the commandments. But the Jew becomes the other, the evil one. I was very well reminded of this on Sunday when I went to the Dura exhibition at the National Gallery. It’s a wonderful exhibition. And of course Dura is a marvellous artist.
But I looked at the pictures of the depiction of Jews. The majority of his works, of course were religious works. So the image of Jesus, the image of Jesus on the cross, crucified by the evil Jews. And please don’t apply logic to this. We know it was the Roman method of execution. But for hundreds of years, particularly in an illiterate Europe, how do you think people gain their information, from the church, from the paintings, from the hold of the culture which is anti-Jewish. And I’m going to take this point off because it’s also in a way going to explain the survival of the Jews. And I’m going to give you some examples from canonical law. And I could have chosen thousands because once the Christian church, once the Catholic church in Rome takes supreme power and they do something brilliant in the year 800, they go to the strongest king on the block, Charlamagne, they make him holy Roman emperor. He is going to be the defender of the Catholic church. And as William told you, for a long period of history, the defender of the Catholic church is going to be the house of Hapsburg. So, and the church would brook no opposition. It’s a power structure. And this is, I’m just going to give you a notion of some of the canonical laws because what the canonical laws do as well is they separate the Jews from the Christians. Of course you could make the case that Jewish ritual separates. But for example, in the Synagogue of Alvera, prohibition of intermarriage and sexual intercourse between Christians and Jews.
That same synagogue, Jews and Christians are not permitted to eat together. Synagogue of Claremont, Jews are not allowed to hold public office. Synagogue of Vilna. As Christianity went on the march, even after Rome fell, Christianity goes on the march. Why was it so popular? Well, that’s another story in another time. And there are many, many books on it. Jews not allowed to employ Christian servants or possess Christian slaves, Synagogue of Vilna. Jews not permitted to show themselves in the streets during passion week, Synagogue Vilna. The burning of the Talmud, Synagogue of Toledo. Christians not permitted to live in Jewish homes, Synagogue of Nabeul. Jews obliged to pay taxes for the support of the church to the same extent as Christians, Synagogue of Genoa. Prohibition of Sunday work, Synagogue of Shaboz. Can you imagine what that did to a merchant class? Jews not permitted to be plaintiffs or witness against Christians. It’s third latter and council 1179. And then of course the latter and council of 1215, which institutes the Jew badge. Okay, the Synagogue of Vienna, Christians not permitted to attend Jewish ceremony. Obviously they were. Another one of the Synagogue of Vienna of 1267. This is very interesting. Jews not permitted to dispute with simple Christian people about the tenants of the Catholic faith.
Compulsory ghetto’s Synagogue of Breslov. Why am I talking about this? Because it’s important to understand the outsideness of the Jew and something else. Helen talked about anti-Judaism and Christianity. But please don’t forget that all trades and professions were actually mastered by guilds. And guilds were Christian. So these people that are now dispersed throughout the known world, they’re literate because every Jewish male had to be literate. They are international and they have to fill the cracks in mediaeval society if they are going to survive. If they are going, they’re not part of the serf class, they’re certainly not part of the aristocracy, the knight class. So where on earth do they fit? And they fit as a group and they are international. And because they’re squeezed out of the guilds, that means you can’t be a stone mason. You can’t be a blacksmith, whatever. It means that you can only enter into those trades and professions which the Christians aren’t involved in. And in the end it meant money lending because in 911 the church forbade money lending to Christians. They took a Jewish law from the book of Leviticus, 911, Christians can no longer be money lenders. It’s a fascinating story it is. So the rabbis issue a takkanah, Jews become the money lenders and who likes the people you owe money to? So you’ve got the double edged sword. The Jew does become the real outsider in Christian Europe. However, they are useful. Why are they useful?
Because the other great monotheistic religion, Islam, the two great proselytising religions, both Islam and Christianity are proselytising religions. They’re at war with each other for nearly a thousand years. And who are the people who are going to cross over? Because the princes, they might have to in theory to obey the church or suffer greatly, but something else. They still need to trade. Just think where Jewish communities are. We know that there was, and I’ve mentioned this to you many times and I promise you there will be lectures on it. The Jews were in China in the year a 1000 at the end of the silk route. The Jews are trading throughout the Arab world. They’re trading throughout the Muslim world, they’re in Spain, they are the merchants. Now this is very, very important. So now let’s please turn to Vienna. Let’s turn to the Hapsburg. And of course, can we see the first picture? Oh, before we do that, oh, thanks Judy. I’ve forgotten I’d put this in. This is just a lovely map which shows you, and this is the Leopold start much more time on that. You can see where Freud lived and you’ve seen the great residence, the Hofberg and Trotsky’s home, Trotsky’s coffee house. You can see Stalin also was in Vienna, but much more about that in a couple of months time. Can we go on Judy? I want to, yes, there he is. That is Frederick.
Now the founder of the Hapsburg dynasty was in fact Rudolph of Hapsburg. But this is Frederick who is the last of the Brandenburgs. And in fact, it’s in his reign that for the first time we see a chancellor of the Jews that applies to Vienna and Hapsburgs. Now we already know that before he is actually on the throne, there’s already a mint master in Vienna. Now many Jews fulfilled the niche of mint masters. That was the coinage of the realm. They will be responsible for finding the silver, finding the gold. Their international connections are going to be very, very, very useful. I don’t want you to go away thinking that all Jews are rich. That’s not going to be the story. But the point is, the visible ones are going to be wealthy and they’re going to be known to the court and they have retinas and that’s where the others come in. You’re only looking at a tiny population at this stage. Now, so the first Jew that we know of in Vienna is a man called Shlom, the mint master. We know he died in 1195 and he was in charge of the mint of Duke Leopold V. This is before the reign of Frederick. And we know that he owned because one of the issues of mediaeval history is whereas with modern history, you have too many sources. And what is history and what are we trying to find out? Whereas with mediaeval history, what sources do we have? We know he owned four plots of land. And we also know that in 1195 he lost a lawsuit to try and reclaim a vineyard, which it was given as a pledge to him. And it was then given away by his, the man who owed him money to a local monastery.
And meanwhile, a former servant of his had stolen some money and gone to join the Crusades. What happened was that Shlom had the man seized and imprisoned and incited by the wife of the man, it was Easter time, the Crusades, this is the second crusade. And every time there’s a Crusade, anti-Jewish feeling is whipped up because think about it, they’re going off to Jerusalem, to free Jerusalem from the infidel Muslims. So consequently, the wife of the imprisoned man whips up the mob and he and 15 of his retinue, Shlom the mint master are murdered. But we do know that Duke Leopold, who was angry about it, had two of the murderers executed. Now, why was he angry? If everybody hates the Jews so much, why? Now it’s important to remember they are despised and hated by the Catholic church because the very fact that Jews exist are on a front to Christendom. Christendom supersedes Judaism, they should all have converted, so they are on a front to the Catholic church. The Catholic church would suppress any heresy with absolute horror. Jews should not be murdered, said the Catholic church, yes, there were excessors and we know that during the Inquisition that they did allow the use of torture. They actually, you know, that was a Vatican encyclical, but nevertheless, don’t murder them because they are witness to, they should live degraded lives, witness to the true faith of Christianity. And of course in theory, all the princes and kings had to go along with that, depending on how Christian and religious they really were. But they also had to run a state.
And the further, if you think about it, you have a peasant population. You have knights who want to go off and fight in the Crusades or obtain as much land as possible. Who on earth is going to engender the economy? So princes were far more, quite often, far more pragmatic. And when you have a pragmatic prince then it’s going to be in his interests to actually keep the Jews safe. And certainly this man Frederick, he’s the one before Rudolph of Hapsburg, he actually issues a charter for the Jews because Frederick II, he’s quite a warlike character. He takes more and more land. He has no heirs. So that’s why it passes to Rudolph of Hapsburg. And he therefore, he then issues this charter on how Jews should be treated. And he puts them under his protection. The point is the Jews are going to be belong to him. So any insult or any accusation or any murder of a Jew is an insult to the king, because why? They’re under his protection because they’re looking after the mints. They’re also merchants and they are the money lenders. So, and the first part, I’m not going to read all the charts to, but it’s very, very interesting. The first clause in cases involving money and movable property or criminal complaint, no Christian shall be admitted as a witness unless there is also a Jewish witness. He’s not going to allow a group of Christians to condemn a Jew without justification.
Likewise, if a Christian should bring suit against a Jew asserting he’s pawed his pledges with him, and the Jew should deny this, basically you have to, the Jew’s oath is taken as valid, just as valid as a Christian oath. And it’s all about pledges. It’s about how if a Jew, if a Christian has borrowed money from a Jew, that debt has to be honoured because a percentage of it belongs to the crown and the prince himself or the king or the duke, it’s in his interest to keep the Jews safe. And it also, if a Jew through accent of fire or through theft, threat, or violence should lose his own goods, the Christian who has pled something nevertheless brings suit against him, the Jew may free himself with his own oath. Also, if a Christian should inflict any sort of wound upon a Jew, the accuse shall pay to the duke 12 marks of gold, which are to be turned into the treasury. He must also pay to the person who has been injured, 12 marks of silver in the expense incurred for the medicine needed in his cure. This is a strong ruler who wants to protect his Jews because they are useful. This isn’t about loving Jews, not on the contrary, this is about utility. If a Christian strikes a Jew without having spilled his blood, he shall pay to the Jew four marks of gold. And to the man lies struck, four marks of silver. If he has no money, he should offer satisfaction for the crime committed by the loss of his hand. You know, this is tough. Likewise, wherever a Jewish shall pass through our territory, no one shall offer hindrance up to him or molest him. The Jew is to pay no road fees in all Austrian lands.
If however, he should be carrying any goods on other things for which he must pay duty at all customs office, he shall play only the prescribed duty, which a citizen of that town in which the Jew dwells is paying. So they’re having parity with the Christians and they should not be molested because of course the Jews in the main are merchants. They are going from village to village, town to town. And this is another interesting one. If the Jews is their custom should transport any of their dead, either from city to city or from province to province, or from one Austrian land into another, we do not wish anything to be demanded of them, by our customs officers. Likewise, if a Christian move by insolence shall break in or devastate the cemetery of the Jew, he shall die as the court determines and all his property shall be forfeited to the treasury of the duke. If anyone wickedly throw something at the synagogues of the Jews, we look that he played two talons to the judges of the Jews. So basically he’s treating, this is 1244, he’s treating the Jews as a completely separate group, but they are there because they are useful to him. And we know that under Leopold the VI, a second synagogue, there’s already one synagogue, a second synagogue was erected. And we also know that in 1235, another Jew, Teka, mentioned as living in Vienna. He was a banker for the state and he was, we know that he had far flung financial interests.
Now what do I mean by that? Jews living, think where Vienna is and the Hapsburg lands are. This is also the beginnings of a Jewish settlement in Poland because the kings of Poland ruling vast areas of land, which of course are mainly peasant, they see the point of inviting Jews into the land because they need people to be useful to the state. So you see the dilemma, which you have this incredibly negative stereotype of the Jew. The Jew is the Christ killer, the Jew is the devil. Yeah, I’m going to go that far. And yet there must have been a certain amount of commerce between Jew and Christian already when I read you the prohibitions in some of the synagogues. Jews and Christians must have been mixing together. You know, people are people are people. You have the Catholic church, which is trying very hard to keep the Jew as the other. The Catholic church, which is trying desperately to take sway over all the princes of all the Christian princes of Europe and to fight the Muslims. And at the same time, you have Christian kings who need to survive economically. So in the mediaeval economy, when a king is strong, it’s in his interests to keep the Jews safe. And look the oldest, we have Jewish tombstones from Vienna, which date as, I think the earliest one found was 1298.
A cemetery there was certainly quite a big cemetery in 1368. And we noted there’s a slaughter house in Vienna in 1320. Certainly in the close of the 13th century, shall we have a look at the picture of Rudolph of Hapsburg, please I think. Let’s see him next. There you have Rudolph of Hapsburg. Of course this is the beginning of the Hapsburg dynasty, which William is already talking about. William and I are trying to coincide at the moment. He’s going to give you the general history and I’m going to slot Jewish history in. And so what you have with Rudolph, and of course you notice there beautifully that Hapsburg jaw, which later on through too much inter-marriage is going to lead to appalling horrors. I’ll never forget, I was on a trip in Vienna with a group and we had an oral surgeon as part of the group. And he looked around, we were in the great art exhibition of Vienna, the great art gallery of Vienna, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful place. And he was looking at the pictures of the Hapsburgs and he said, I’ll never forget, he said, “I could have sorted it all out for them.” Because it gets so bad that in the end they can’t masticate have a look at that jaw and just imagine by the time you get to the later Hapsburgs, it’s going to be a really, really problem. Now, so by the close of the 1300s and during the 1400s, it’s the leading community of German Jewry. There are thousand Jews living in 70 different houses in Vienna and also in a period of relative calm under strong rulers. This is the point. What do the Jews do? Who do they revere? And I think this is another important lesson of Jewish history, who were the heroes of the Jews.
It’s not the kings and the princes, is it? It’s not the knights, it’s not the chivalry knights, it is the great sages. So, and there are a whole group known as the sages of Vienna, Isaac Ben Moses, his son Ḥayyim, Meir ben Baruch HaLevi. And in fact, during the time of the Black Death, 1348 to 1354 is a horrific period in Europe. About the third of the population of Europe die as a result of bubonic plague. And of course, you can just imagine, and we discussed it in other places, the Jews are blamed for it, but not in Vienna. They’re kept safe. And it becomes a refuge for Jews during the Black Death and during the reign of, it’s during the reign of Rudolph, it develops very, very strongly. So important to remember that. Now, however, things don’t go on for, things change. And towards the end of the 1400s, sorry, the 1300s, the 14th century, this growing anti-Jewish feeling amongst the emerging merchant class. Now this is what happens as you have an indigenous population that creates its own merchants. And we haven’t yet come to the age of Mercantilism, which the Jews are going to play such an important part in. There is problems with the Christian merchants. You know, the Jews with their international connections. Think where Vienna is placed. Vienna really is the gateway.
If you think of it as a city. Those of you who’ve travelled a lot in Eastern Europe will know that Vienna is the stopping off place. If you’ve got to change planes, you change planes in Vienna, in the dream days where we could. The great railway networks of the 19th, 20th century. But it’s a stopping off place. It’s western and central Europe, Eastern Europe, and then the route, the overland routes to China. There’s no sea route at this time. And the overland route, even when there’s wars with the various Muslim empires, you’re still trading. When I said there was a thousand years of war, I don’t mean there are a thousand years of battles, of course there aren’t. But in periods of relative tranquillity, look at the kind of clothes he’s wearing. Where do you think the lace came from? Where do you think the gold comes from? It’s fascinating. Where’s the cloth coming from? There’s a whole history of, you know, history of costume, which gives you a wonderful feeling of really how trade works. Now, one of the reasons behind the growth of anti-Jewish feeling in Vienna, had a lot to do with the growth of the Hussites. I’ve already said the Christian church cannot brook any opposition. And Jan Hus was an in Bohemia, it was a sector that arose in Christianity, which wanted to modernise the church. It’s a kind of, I suppose it’s really a for run-up of Luther, it’s a hundred, it’s about 70 years before Luther, but it’s very much a forerunner of Luther.
And what they wanted, they hated the sale of indulgences. There were very, very corrupt popes. You know, the sale of indulgences of course, when you die, the Christian belief is you go to purgatory, but you can buy time off purgatory by giving ties to the church by going on a pilgrimage and you can sell indulgences. And that meant, and of course it was very corrupt. Also, giving offices to six year old children. And Jan Hus, who was a very pious Christian, he was a theologian. He wanted to modernise the church. This is in Bohemia. And he managed to persuade the local princes and it developed into the Hussite Wars. And the Hussite Wars, Catholicism has never coped well with any opposition. It’s going to get much worse with the reformation and the counter reformation. And by that time the Hapsburgs are going to be absolutely at the centre of it. But so what happens is there’s a great feeling of wanting Catholicism, the Catholic way, the only way, and it led to a lot of problems for the Jews of Vienna. Remember there’s a small community, they’re very useful in trade. And in 1406 there’s a fire in the synagogue which destroyed it. And it was during that period that the merchants actually seized the opportunity to attack the homes of the Jews. And then we come to Easter, 1420, the rumour went around that a wealthy Jew called Israel had bought some consecrated hosts from the wife of the church Sexton in Enns. Now the host is part of the Eucharist. And in Catholic belief, it becomes the body of Christ. So for a Jew then rumour than a Jew has bought these hosts from the wife of a church Sexton.
And the story went, it’s Easter, remember, when gentle Jesus was murdered by the evil Jews. They are distributed according to the story, amongst Jews who desecrate them. And what happens is Jews, mainly merchants were implicated. They were brought to into Vienna. They are imprisoned, they’re torture. And what happens is Jews in all the towns and cities around Vienna, and we’re talking, a few hundred people were rounded up. They’re stripped of all their possessions. You see, this is the merchant class again. And the wealthy are imprisoned. The poor Jews are placed on boats in the Danu without oars. And of course they all drowned. Some were held captive in the synagogue, other in houses, children were taken from their parents and forcibly converted. In fact, the rabbis of Italy. Italy is an interesting case and we’ve already discussed this. And we looked at the Medici. Think about the early Renaissance, wealthy merchants in Italy already understanding the value of Jews and rabbis of Italy managed to appeal to the Pope, Pope Martin V. Ironically, the Pope himself threatened excommunication for forced conversion. He said, conversion must always be willing, but by this time the mob are out of control. The emperor has lost control. And many of the children were carried off into monasteries and there were forced conversions.
So this is a terrible, terrible period. Many of those who were imprisoned, committed Kiddush HaShem, it is not suicide. If you commit, it’s the sanctification of his name. And the last, in the synagogue, the last one alive, Rabbi Jonas set fire to the corpses and threw himself on the pyre. It, you know, masada is Kiddush HaShem. York is Kiddush HaShem. The sanctification of the name. And there were nearly 200 remaining, 120 women, 92 men. And they were burnt at the stake. And all their property passed to the merchants and to the duke. So consequently, this is a terrible black period in history. The city is known from then on as the city of blood. And the stones taken from the synagogue were actually used to build for the building of the old Vienna University, which of course was a theological university. So this was the end of the community, a most terrible end. And this is a period, well, what does it illustrate? It illustrates that when the Jews were useful, when the church was not inflamed, and ironically at this stage, the duke was more inflamed than the Pope, then you have a problem. The Jews have a terrible, terrible problem. It also shows you the powerlessness of the Jew. And this is a very interesting motif. One of the reasons I said that I wanted to study this period with you is does it give us any pointers? It taught us to concentrate on scholarship. Sure. The greatest prize in matrimony for the rich man was not the other rich man’s daughter, it was the rabbi’s daughter. And when we start looking at some of the important court Jews, you’ll see many of them were also rabbis. So scholarship, love of God, the whole notion of Messianism itself.
You can make the case and many scholars make the case it’s been expunged. Why has it been expunged? Because what did Messianism lead to? Messianism actually led to what? It led to the destruction of Judea. So we will keep ourselves safe, we will surround ourselves in a wall of law and we will learn and we will move when necessary, we’ll survive as best we can. And if you think about it, the Jews are now out of Vienna. Where would they go? Well, Poland is quite hospitable at this period. You have the union of Poland and Lithuania, which is interesting for those of you who come from South Africa ‘cause I know that’s where most of you come from. And that’s becoming a very viable place. So there’s somewhere to go to. And we do know that quite a few, maybe when I say quite a few, I’m talking about maybe a dozen did stay behind as doctors. Because in 1438, we know that Christian physicians campaigned about Jews practising medicine illegally. And we know that in 1512, there were only 12 Jewish families in Vienna. Now, just going back a little more to the sages of Vienna. They were known as the Hassits. Now don’t confuse that with hasidism. It really means the righteous ones. And they were a very spiritual group of people and they believed that you could rise spiritually through knowledge and through prayer. And they studied with the great halachic masters.
So against the backdrop of the horror, it’s important to remember that there is a great deal of Jewish scholarship. And I think that’s also part of the pattern that I want to talk about. Now things are going to change. But before I get onto that, I do want to, and of course on Thursday I’m going to talk about court Jews because I think it’s now a good time to introduce the whole subject of court Jews, because they are going to be, what does that mean? It means that many of the German princes and certainly the Hapsburgs had as their main financial advisor, their mint master, and the man in charge of really, of the finances of the country, they tended to be Jews. Now this is a fascinating phenomenon that is going to become very important, particularly in the 1600s. And it’s going to be the heyday of the great court Jews. Now those court Jews become the Stalin of the Jewish world. If they are very successful, they are allowed to have a huge retinue with them. For example, Samuel Oppenheimer, who is going to be one of the most important of the court Jews who I’m going to talk, I’m going to do a whole session on him. He had a retinue of a hundred people who were allowed to settle in Vienna with him. So who are the court Jews and what’s it about? Now we find them all over the Jewish world. And I’m going to talk a little bit now before we get onto the Jews of the German lands and the Hapsburg lands, which I’m going to talk about on Thursday. I’m just going to give you an indication because the other issue, the church pushed the Jews into money lending and merchanting.
The other great prong of anti-Judaism, anti-Semitism, which Helen didn’t emphasise because that wasn’t her job. She was to talk about Christian anti-Judaism is the association of the Jews with money. Now I can talk until I’m blue in the face. The majority of Jews have never been rich and famous. But there’s always been, in Europe, a group and of course in the Arab world, a group of Jewish financiers who walked the world. Quite often they were courtiers, they were at court. And their story is a very, very interesting one. We talk more about it on Thursday. So I’m going to get, of course, don’t forget, in Spain, under the Muslims, you have characters like Hasdai ibn Shaprut. He wasn’t just a financier, of course he was a great rabbi. Shamal Hanagi of the greatest of our sages, a doctor and a philanthropist. Don’t forget England, even in England, in the reign of Henry II, Erin of Lincoln, the richest Jew in England. He left a hundred thousand pounds on his deathbed. Vivalin lent 340,000 florins, even though there are no Jews in England, Vivalin who lives in France lends 340,000 florins to Edward III for his wars against France. You know, it’s interesting. The other point about the Jews, they’re not getting involved in the wars between Christians. And you know, as far as they’re concerned, they live as a separate group. And if it’s in their interest to finance and they can, they will, which is another prong that leads to problems.
Now, in the Ottoman Empire, we’ve already spent time on the wonderful Dona Gracia and Joseph Duke of Naxos. In Spain under the Christians, don’t forget, Abraham Senior and Abravanel, who led the Jews from Spain. A fascinating character called Sir Edward Brampton. Yes, Duarte Brandao, who was a Portuguese Jew. His dates are 1440 to 1508. He was a son, evidently his father was a blacksmith, a Jewish blacksmith in Spain, in Portugal. We don’t know anything about his mother, about his father, because he becomes so famous, they want to Christianize him. He immigrates to Britain in the 1450s. He’s converted to Christianity, of course he’s a converso. He’s accepted at court and Edward IV was his sponsor. He was very much an adventurer. He’s one of those characters that you could almost make a film about. He’s a soldier, he’s a ship’s captain. He fought in many of the battles of the Wars of the Roses on the side of the Yorkers. He was at the Battle of Tewkesbury, those of you who know your English history. And he becomes the governor of Guernsey. Evidently he was an incredibly attractive character. He was very much favoured by both the English and the Portuguese. And in 1484, he’s knighted by Richard III. Now of course Richard III, who gets such a terrible press in England because of the play “Richard III”, which remember is written in the reign of Henry VII granddaughter. And Henry VII took the throne from Richard III, who is killed in battle in 1485.
With the fall of the Yorkist, he flees and where does he go to? He goes to the court of Margaret of Burgundy, who is plotting for the return of the Yorkist. And he actually employs one of the pretenders to the throne of England. The early years of Henry VII’s reign will beset with all sorts of people pretending to be the Yorkist claimants to the throne. The most famous was Perkin Warbeck. We also know that he was an advisor to Cesare Borgia. So this is a Jew, an adventurer. And also we know that there are women financiers. So I think though, rather than give you the whole list, because I want to point out to you that Jews as financeers, they exist before we come onto the important period of the court Jew. But the important period is really the 16 and 16 and 1700s. And that’s when you see the court Jews rising to huge prominence. They rock the world. And on Thursday, I’m going to look at how they rock the world and how they fall because is there a lesson in this? How high can one be part of the outside world? All these questions that I’m posing, look, the situation of course is very, very different today, but it’s still the whole issue of identity. How does a Jew fit into the outside world? Well, I think I will stop there because I’m sure there’s going to be a few questions. Yes. So shall I start taking some questions?
Trudy, Trudy. Hi.
[Trudy] Hi Wendy.
Hi. Thank you very much. Very, very interesting presentation. I actually have a question for you. I want to go back to Vienna. When you spoke about the city of blood.
Yes.
And you mentioned that the duke was powerless with the mob. You also mentioned that the Pope at the time.
Yep, Clement the V.
Was not insisting on conversion.
Yes.
So, my question to you is I want to ask you about who does have the power, who does have the influence? There’s a very big difference between power and influence. And I think it is often confused and finances often get involved in it, but in actual fact, finances are an aid, but they’re not necessarily, it doesn’t necessarily give one power.
Yeah, exactly. I think it’s a very, very good point.
I’d like to have just clarity on what was going on during the time.
Okay first point, not all popes were violently anti-Semitic, anti-Jewish. And that varies from pope to pope. It’s usually when the papacy is under threat. And then the arch heretics are in trouble. You’ve got to remember how the pope, the real problems are going to happen in the counter of reformation. The Jew gets squeezed when Christianity is fighting amongst itself. Also under Islam when Islams secure. So that’s the first point to make. The other point to make is people are people and there are relationships and they’re going to be certain princes who find the Jews incredibly useful. Certain Hapsburg rulers who find them useful and are far more pragmatic. And I’ll be looking at some of those as we go through the course. But there’s also going to be the very zealous Christians. Now on your question of influence, it’s very, very important. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. These characters had influence, but they never, I’m pretty sure they didn’t actually have power. Influencers influence, but did Jews have power? It’s a difficult one.
Let’s park it. I want to ask between the Duke and the Pope and the crowd.
Well, the crowd was out of control. The point was, the crowd gets out of control. It’s never in the interest of the duke for the crowd to get out of control. Remember that. I mean, there’s an extraordinary example in English history in Richard the first reign, the worst pogrom in English history. He was very, very angry about it because the Jews are actually the property of the king or the duke. They are the king’s Jews. That’s their position in mediaeval society. It’s very, very strange. So once in a while, as I said, you’ve got a very religious king. A great example of that is Philip II, Charles V, Williams talking about him next week. His son Philip II, was incredibly zealous. He led the armada against England, which was a holy war. You can’t make rules in the main. Look, there’s always people who have more tolerant views, Wendy. But when the mob gets out of control, particularly at Easter, just imagine that. Look, I can remember my mother telling me, my mother passed away 10 years ago at 94. When she was a girl at school, there was a Catholic school nearby. She went to a Jewish school. The kids used to come and scream Christ killer at them at Easter. You know, it’s deep. Now, I do not believe that’s the majority of people. But you can, it’s like a festering sore. But I think your question on influence is very, very important.
So I’m going to do one more thing before I hand over. I’m sorry 'cause I don’t want to monopolise, but I’m the cat amongst the pigeons.
No, it’s important.
Can we, you know, let’s just go back a year to the 6th of January. Yeah what happened, you know, in Washington? With the mob crowd?
Yes. You see the mob got out of control. Now, when the mob was incited. It’s very interesting legal question that I think we should ask our judges on Sunday. The mob were incited, but how far did the people who did the inciting want it to go? That’s an interesting question to me.
So let’s park all of this take-
But I think people are the same. You see Wendy, I think, you know, whether it’s the 14th century or the 20th century, when there’s fire in the mob, their out of control.
It’s important to ask the questions and to see how history may repeat.
Yeah. Let’s, oh, let’s have a look at some questions.
Q&A and Comments:
Okay. Hello Wendy. Oh, happy birthday to your dad. I was very fortunate.
This is from Edith Myrna, sorry to hear about your father. Who is the more influential, there’s lots of nice messages about your parents.
- Thank everybody for your warm messages. Much, much, much appreciated. As always.
Q: - Who was more influential? The Medici or the Hapsburgs?
A: That is a very, very good question. In the end, Alan. I’m going to say, Alan, I’m going to say the Hapsburgs because they lasted a lot longer. And when you’re going to look at the lands that the Hapsburgs actually controlled, they controlled much of central Europe. So I think I’m going to plump for the Hapsburgs.
Oh yes, this is from Elliot. There was an ongoing-ish challenge between the Sacher Cafe and the Lanza cafe and the issue went to court. Yes, this is about the recipe for Sachertorte if I’m correct. How you put the marmalade in. And I think it was a cook from the Sacher who set up another cafe. I’m sure someone will be able to tell us.
This is from Sandy. I also felt Vienna in all its post World War II so glory that it felt like too many ghosts. There was a gorgeous exhibit of the Jewish Museum of Yards and Torah covers. The other person, in the Navy room with Cantorial music, the other person in the room was a woman with numbers on her arm. We knew where these stolen items come from and held each other and cried. Oh, it’s so sad, Sandy.
Q: Can you send a list of books that Trudy mentioned?
A: Yes, I will give a list.
And this is from Herbert. Years ago, on a last night in Vienna, we had a choice between Sachertorte or a performance of Merry Widow at the Opera House. Sachertorte won. Dressed as tourists there escorted us through the main dining room through the next one and the next one until we got to the lowest level where we finally enjoyed our Sachertorte at the Sacher Hotel. Thanks for the great picture of the Sacher Hotel, Herbert.
As somebody’s just said, Adrian just said, what a difficult choice. Couldn’t you have taken some away with you and gone to see the Merry Widow? I would’ve done that. How did they get the money to lend from merchanting and from selling, buying and selling, buying and selling? I was thinking of actually opening this session, believe it or not, with a scene from “The Pawnbroker”. I advise you ought to watch it. It’s stars Rod Seiger and his assistant asked him, what is the secret of the Jews? What is your secret? And it’s about that. It’s about buying and selling. Somebody’s recommend enjoying Mel Brooks. Yes. Again, happy birthday to… Happy Birthday to Wendy’s dad, to Nate.
Trudy, I want to jump in and also just to say to our participants that I’ve been giving a lot of thought about our programming and also just what we are going through at this moment in time. And I’ve asked Jeremy Rosen, our rabbi who does every second Tuesday. I’m wanting to add a string called Difficult Conversations.
Yeah, I like that. Go on. Sorry, Wendy.
Go on.
Go on. Yeah, Wendy.
No, I, you know, because we did bring up bit and I know that it hit a lot of nerves and I just feel that there are certain conversations that need to be had. And that we need to put it out there and to have a look at different perspectives and to be able to have the conversation, whether we agree or we don’t agree. But it’s very important to be able to have the conversations and to be able to walk away still being respecting each other and you know, having a level of integrity. So just to throw that out, especially after, you know, our lecture today of incitement.
Yes, I agree. And I think it’s a very, very important edition. So that’s going to be every other Tuesday. One of the things that I know Wendy’s been trying very hard to do is if you like, we’re trying to stick within the subjects, but at the same time throw out the arguments in such a way that people can participate. And I think it’s going to be a wonderful addition. Jennifer, can I mention the book by Schnitzler “La Ronde”. Also read Robert Wistrich, “The Jews of Vienna in the Age of Franz Joseph”. Several hundred years ago, the diamond merchants of Amsterdam wanted to form a guild. The mayor rejected the quest as many Jews would’ve lost their livelihoods. Yes, you see Amsterdam is a separate situation, Nicolas. Amsterdam after after the Hapsburgs, after the Spanish Hapsburgs lost that part of the world, Amsterdam was an interesting oasis. Remember the Dutch were great mercantilist and the Jews flourished there, within the realms of living in the Christian world. It’s a miracle that Jews have survived since this happened again and again. Well, that’s why I read you the passage from the “Jewish Century” by Yuri Slezkine. It’s almost like our history equipped us for survival. Yes, we have had a tragic history, but at the same time it’s an incredible history of survival. And if you think about the characters that came out of Vienna, they changed the modern world. It’s no accident that many of the world changers in the West are born in the Jewish tradition. We need Epigeneticists. Wendy, if you are still there, we need to bring Epigeneticists into our talk as well because I sometimes wonder if there’s almost a restless gene as part of Jewish makeup.
Well, I’m up for that.
I think it’s important, Rachelle has recommended “Vienna Blood”. Can I also point out that one of the treats we have for you, Frank Tallis, who wrote “Vienna Blood” is coming in to talk in February about, he’s an interesting man, and it’s a brilliant series. And those of you, it’s on, I dunno if you can get, yes, it has been on in America. He told me. It’s really a detective series set at turn of the century Vienna. I think it’s excellent and I know you can get it on BBC iPlayer. Adrian’s also saying, so.
And Debbie says, have you heard the Chinese of the Jews of Southeast Asia, your description of how Jews were invited to various geographies because they were merchants. And then when the indigenous merchants grew up, the Jews were persecuted. This came back to me when you spoke of the Jewish merchants of Vienna losing favour when the Vietnamese merchants grew in importance. Sure, yeah. Heard from my sons-in-law who are Chinese from Hong Kong. Yeah, you know, it’s fascinating. As you know, I’ve done a lot of work in China and without getting into Chinese politics, if Wendy wants to with Jeremy, that’s another story. But one thing that has been that is it absolutely extraordinary, the Chinese actually find Jews interesting and they don’t understand anti-Semitism. We might quarrel with a lot about China, but the one thing they don’t get is anti-Semitism. In fact, the ambassador once said to me, I don’t understand it, you work hard. He gave the stereotype, it’s very stereotypical, you work hard, you look after your families, and you look after your own diaspora, which he was worried about.
The name of the man who’s writing I recommended, it’s Robert Wistrich. Professor Robert Wistrich, “The Jews of Vienna "in the age of Franz Joseph.” He won the Vienna State Prize, the Austrian State Prize for it. It’s one of his best books. He was a brilliant scholar. The name of the adventurer was Brampton, Duarte Edward Brampton. He was a governor of Guernsey. That’s right. Adrian, Vienna is beautiful but I felt strange there because of what happened in the 30s and 40s and the near extinction of the Jewish community. Yes, it is a very, very, very strange place. And I’m hoping that later on we have, I used to sit on IHRA and the woman who represents Austria on it, who is Jewish actually, I’m going to invite her to speak to us of what it’s like to be a Jew living in Vienna today.
In the late 1960s, I hitch hiked through the Europe and stayed in the youth hospital. The hospital was underground in what used to be a German bunker. It was chilling. Yeah. Look, I think for Jews to be in Europe, if you’ve got a consciousness of your history, it is dark, it is hard. But there’s also, don’t forget also the glory of many of those individuals who did live in Vienna. Just because it ended so tragically, it doesn’t mean we should discount the worlds they came from and the world they loved, the worlds they loved as well. You know, if you’re going to take Bismark’s phrase, the Jews were the champagne. I want you to think when the Jews are finally emancipated in the reign of Franz Joseph, it’s extraordinary. You know, Max Reinhardt’s theatres, it dominated every aspect of culture. You know, they were the citizens of Vienna. It was fascinating. Vivian, I’m afraid we’ve talked about the Jews of the Ottoman Empire. More and more-
I’m sorry, I just want to say that we must remember the great gifts that the German and the Viennese Jews brought to Israel.
Yes, and to London.
England and to London. And you know, we had Freud and we, you know, we’ve had the greats and we have to keep positive as well.
I think we must look, you know, it’s fascinating, Jewish history. I’m going to stick my neck out here. I think the German and the Austrian immigration to England was one of the greatest immigrations England ever had. I mean, Patrick Bade will say very strongly, and Patrick isn’t Jewish, he says very strongly, they totally enriched British culture. I mean if you think about Glenborn, if you think about the Edinburgh Festival, whatever area you are interested in, the Jewish refugees, I’m going to bring the Hungarians in as well and the Czechs. The film business in England to say nothing of when they went to America. Wendy, I mean, you are so interested in the arts in America. Look how they set, Israel speaks for itself. But just think about America, the German and Austrian Jews. It’s extraordinary.
And psychoanalysis.
Oh, well there’s a wonderful story that when Freud and Jung crossed the pond, Freud evidently said to Jung, “We are bringing the plague with us "and they don’t even know it.”
That’s right.
And of course conservative Vienna hated Freud. And he said he had to bring Jung. There’s a wonderful letter he had to bring Jung in, he said, because otherwise it would’ve been regarded just as a Jewish science. No, it’s the story and it’s because they weren’t the compact majority. I don’t think there’s any mystery because the Jews were outsiders. You know, it’s fascinating in England today, if you look at the groups that are doing so well, they are groups that come from outside, mainly with a strong culture. That seems to be the trick. If you come from another place with a strong culture, you are in a very good position to observe and to take your own, the culture of the country you live in forward.
Yes, this is from Leon. You will know from your visits to Vienna that there’s a marble carving at the corner of a square. The very centre commemorating the expulsion of the Jews in 15th century. Yeah. Yes, of course. Oh, will I be speaking of my relative Rabbi Maurice Goodman, the chief rabbi of Vienna during the time of Hertzler? Wow, I do love this group. Of course I will. Yes. Oh, that’s amazing. I don’t think there’s ever been a group like you.
And this is from Joan, Wendy, a wonderful idea. We need these respectful dialogues. More and more people wishing Natey happy birthday and well.
This is from Barry. Charles, Sam, and I visited the Hotel Sacher travelling Europe students after we ordered the torte, they asked us to lead because we were not smart enough. Evidently Prince Rudolph spent his last night at the Cafe Sacher before he went to Mayerling and committed suicide with his girlfriend. And I promise you, I know William was quite rude about me yesterday, although I love him. We will be talking about the Empress Sisi, but I will not be dressed up as her. You know, she had a 16 inch waist. O
h and Susan say you can rent “The Pawnbroker” on Prime video. It is one of the great films. As Jews, are we worse off now compared to 500 years ago because of the internet? That’s a question Barry, for, Wendy, I think that’s an interesting question for our debating thread strand.
Yeah, make a note of it, Trudy.
Yes, I have. I think that’s a very important question.
And so Judy, I’d also like you to say to Judy, you’re still there, Jude, don’t you please make a note of also the film so that we can add it to our website and also send it out to our participants, please.
Erica, of course I’m going to be talking about Bucca, which is part of the Austria-Hungarian Empire. Yes, I know you’re different from the Jews of the people of Sefaria. I think it’s absolutely wonderful how Jews from different areas. So you know, we like it. And also, those of you who speak Yiddish or whose family spoke Yiddish, there’s different Yiddish for every area. Yes. It was called it, it was named the city of blood after 1421, Emily. Was Solomon, it was Samson Oppenheimer, the ancestor of the South African Oppenheimers. I do not know the answer to that, but I’m sure we can find out.
I presume this is from Janice, that the money lenders had to give a percentage of their profits to the prince. That’s why they’re protected. Yes, that was so, and it depends on where they were. It was usually about 10%.
Q: Can we compare the Jews of Austria with the 20th century Jews in America?
A: Woo-hoo. Oh, I God, you want an answer like that in five minutes? Valerie, I think this is another issue that we could debate. Are there patterns in history? Wendy, I think that’s another interesting one.
- It is.
Q: - Can we go backwards to go forwards?
A: I think there are strands, but the world is very different. Nothing actually repeats itself, except people.
I think, yeah, I think that’s a very, very interesting question, Trudy.
Yeah, that’s strange.
Both immigrants questions.
But different springboards.
Yep. And I think it’s a wonderful idea that you’re introducing.
Oh, this is from Rachelle. When I was learning Mandarin, there was no word for anti-Semitism. Only a phrase, “not like Jews”. Yeah and in fact, talking of the philo, sort of philosemitism, we were in the English language bookshop in Shanghai. And the man and my partner could speak, learnt Mandarin because he lectured in China. And the manager of the bookshop pointed to a picture of an Einstein. Again, the stereotype. He said, “We like your type Jew, "your type clever, Chinese like clever.” Which I thought was hysterical. Oh yes, Marcia, evidently Robert’s book is on Aberdeen.
Laurie, I went to a Shabbat dinner in Shanghai and the young Russian girl next to me responded to my question why she was here alone. She said the Chinese are the only non anti-Semitic country, 2013. I’m not sure if this is still so. Again, another debate, Wendy, on the Jews of China. I personally, look, I haven’t been to China for five years now. I’m not going to make us, I think we leave these for the debates. They are such big questions. Good questions, but big questions.
Some, this is from Monty, some Chinese ask, my son, how many Gods have the Jews?
Oh, this is a terrible story from Jonathan. When the transport bearing Freud’s sisters arrived at the death camp, remember they were in their 80s, they asked the SS officer in charge of the selection for special consideration because of who they were. He politely agreed and selected them first.
This is from Mayra. I loathed every second of our visit to Vienna in 1970. Anti-Semitism seemed to ooze from every corner. I am Jewish. But interesting, a non-Jewish friend with us felt the same way. You know, one of the problems with Vienna, and I am going to say it, we can have a debate on it as well. You’ve got to remember that when Hitler went home in 1938, 90% of the population came out to greet, the other 10% were Jewish. The problem was that the end of the war, because of the problems with Communism and Stalin, the West decided that Vienna was the first victim of so Nazism. So there was no real attempt at de-nazification for years and years and years. But as I said, I have this colleague who is Jewish, who represents IRA on the task force. And I think she would be very well qualified to answer these questions. Far more qualified than I am.
So I think this is something else, Wendy, that would be interesting.
And this is from Vicky. I’ve felt the same, heard so much from my father who was Viennese, how anti-Semitic they were. And of course you have the Kresge Years. Alice Milner, I was in the same underground hospital in Vienna in 1964. It was very creepy with an ongoing noise maybe of generators. Howard, he’s pointing to Amos Elon, “The Pity of it All”. The Jewish, his great book. Also, may we note how many chairs of the Federal Reserve being Jewish.
And incidentally Herzl said it was the Dreyfus trial that made him a Zionist. But actually the catalyst was Carlo Lager. Do you agree? Howard, that’s a very important question. And we will be looking at Zionism in Vienna and Herzl’s path to Zionism is far more complicated than just the Dreyfus affair. I totally agree with that.
There’s a message from Judy. Just check something. Oh, sorry. Okay. I think that’s enough.
Oh, Peter Brie, I’ve just, the Wistrich book on the Jews of Vienna is some 700 pages, a heavy tome. Any condensed versions available? Don’t read it from cover to cover, Peter. May I suggest I never, with a book like that, look, it took him two years to write it. So what I suggest is you choose the chapters that you enjoy. Should we stop there?
We need Cole’s notes.
I don’t think there have been Cole’s notes on the Jews of Vienna. Maybe that’s a job-
If Shakespeare, if they can manage Shakespeare, I think we can manage our history. All right, on that note, thank you very much everyone. Thanks Jude and Trudy, and I will connect in a while. Thanks everyone.
Take care, bye.
[Wendy] Bye.