Trudy Gold
Dr. Nordau of Budapest, Vienna, and Paris

Trudy Gold - Dr. Nordau of Budapest, Vienna, and Paris

- Okay, so now I’m going to start, and today’s presentation is of course, continuing with the theme of Zionism in Vienna, leading up on Thursday to Herzl. Please don’t forget though, that we aren’t, our next big project will be Russia. We’re going to be looking at the history of the Jews of Eastern Europe, and then when the Tsarist empire takes over Poland, Lithuania, Belarus, Ukraine, et cetera, therefore takes over a huge Jewish population, and we’ll be taking it through to the communist days. And of course we’ll be picking up the thread of Russian Zionism. We’ve decided to do it in more geographical terms, so that’s what the team are all working on at the moment. So anyway, can we see the first slide, please? Let’s have a look at the very imposing Max Nordau. We couldn’t find a younger picture of him, actually, but what an extraordinary beard and what an extraordinary individual. Anyway, one of the most controversial individuals imaginable, and let’s talk about his name to start with. He was born Simcha Sudfeld, on July the 29th, 1949, 1849 beg your pardon. And he died Max Nordau in 1923. Now, those of you who know German will know that Simcha Sudfeld, Sudfeld means Southfield. He changed his name to North Hill, North Meadow. This is the great break from also his great break from his Jewishness into the world of German history and culture. Now he comes from a very religious background. He’s the son of a rabbi. He’s born in Pest. He and Herzl had a lot in common. They are both even originally born in Pest. His father was a rabbi, but he earned his living as a Hebrew teacher. He attended a Jewish elementary school.

He had an absolutely brilliant mind. He spoke many, many languages. It said that he spoke at least 15 languages, I’m often told by middle European friends. In fact, I was with one weekend he’s Romanian, and he said, you English are so shocked if people speak more than two languages. If you lived in middle Europe, you had to speak four or five. But with Nordau he spoke 14 or 15, which I think is extraordinary. He was an incredibly bright youngster. Again, another one of these lieu. He was already writing for a travel magazine by 1873. He spent two years travelling. He paid for himself, actually through his writing, he sent in articles to the Neue Freie Press. Let’s have a look. And before that, can we have a look at his quote, his next quote Judi. Max Nordau broke away completely from his Jewishness. And he wrote, he wrote his memoirs, and this is what he said. “When I reached the age of 15, "I left the Jewish way of life and the study of Torah. "Judaism remained a memory for me "and since then I have always felt as a German, "and only as a German.” So, as I said, he had his first published article when he was 14 years old. His two years of travel gave him a must material. His first book was from the Kremlin to the Alhambra. And his financing this by writing. He was an internationalist. He spent time in Budapest, in Vienna, but mainly lived in Paris. He became a doctor. He qualified as a doctor and also was interested in psychology. He’s prior to Freud and in fact Freud’s work overturns many of his theories. He wrote for so many different German papers, he published a succession of books. He gradually became quite a figure in the literary scene, both in Vienna and in Paris. And of course, by this time he changed his name.

Now he also knew Chinese and Japanese. He saw himself at the early stage of his life as a fully assimilated European. He took on board many of the attitudes of turn of the century Vienna. He had a very open attitude to sexuality. And one of the most important affairs of his life, which I’m going to dwell on in a few minutes, is that with a Russian aristocrat who spent winters at the Savoy. And in fact she was a total anti-Semite. So he’s a very, very complicated character. Having studied medicine, both at the University of Budapest and in Vienna, he becomes a doctor and he’s particularly interested in criminology and in hysteria. He becomes very famous, particularly for two books that he wrote. One of course is the famous “Degeneration” which he wrote 1892 to 1893, which that really made him an international figure. It’s going to be published in two volumes and in fact become so controversial that Bertram Russell wrote a book, “Contra Degeneration”. He living in he attacks what he believes to be degenerate and comments on a whole range of social phenomena of the period. He is against the urbanisation and its effect on the human body. You’ve got to remember that medicine and the study of psychology is at a very infant stage. It’s going to be left to Freud, which we’ve already discussed to actually open up that Pandora’s book. He identifies very much with the turn of the century. He’s worried that people are becoming degenerates. He is worried that excessive modernism had led to a return of, in irrational thought, including a renewed interest in magic. We’ve already discussed this have we not. That in the capitals of Europe, places like Budapest, Vienna, Paris, Berlin, which are suffering so much from modernity.

Now I say suffering from modernity. On one level we’ve already discussed how in many ways Jews are the major beneficiaries of modernity, they really take to it. But if you put yourself on the edge and you look at the urbanisation, the poverty that people are looking for some sort of way out. We’ve talked a lot about the Janus face of Vienna, and you could say that about Paris. Remember, Nordau is going to be there for the Dreyfus affair, which is going to have a cataclysmic effect on him, both the first and the second trials. Now he argued, now this is a man who remember he has a very modern attitude to sexuality. He believes in the freedom for sexuality, but he thinks that there is something that is degenerate, that somehow we are losing our grip. We are turning far too much to the irrational. He hated religion. He, in fact, his books were all put on the paper index and they were banned in both Austria and in Russia. He actually believed that there were physical or mechanical factors that were involved in mental illness. And he believed that at certainty degeneration was a mental illness. Now these ideas have been completely debunked. And I think his book reflects the sort of cross currents of all sorts of ideas that are very much there in the Hapsburg empire. He actually said, we are suffering from a black death of degeneration. He wanted, in fact, he did want a certain amount of censorship. And one of the issues that we have to deal with that to understand Nordau you have to take on the whole notion of social Darwinism, one of the most difficult areas in fantasy intellectual history.

Now, social Darwinism, it’s something that I’ve al already referred to and I know that Patrick has in his lectures, and so has David. Following on from the extraordinary Charles Darwin and his notion of the origins of the species, certain pseudo philosophers took hold of these ideas and began to apply them to groups of people. So the notion, for example, that certain groups are best able to survive because they have kept their blood pure, but also the notion of the survival of the fittest. And people can do certain things in order to be part of the kind of the, if you like, the kind of group that the world wants. Richard Hofstadter that incredible American wrote in 1944. It’s in his important book, “Social Darwinism in American Thought”. Now, the point is about social Darwinism. The categories of right, left and centre, or radical or liberal or conservative are completely unhelpful when you’re trying to deal with social Darwinism. This is what Hofstadter had to say. “It’s a conservatism without religion. "A body of belief was that the function of the state "should be kept to the barest minimum. "It was devoid of the centre of reverence and authority, "which the state provides in many conservative systems”. So for example, social Darwinism cannot possibly have anything to do with religion. And Nordau believed that proposals for social reform were ignorant of the fundamental laws of the development of a society. He said political institutions cannot be modified so that unless the characteristics of citizens are modified. And he applies this to cultural criticism. All his life, and this is interesting because there’s, he’s going to become incredibly important in the Zionist movement. When he joins up with Herzl it’s he who is the famous one. It is he who enables Herzl to meet people like Israel Zangwill. It’s he who’s really going to plunge Herzl into the middle of intellectual debate. It’s Nordau, this incredibly controversial figure.

And he never ever recounts on his notion of religious belief. And he believes that people are within a human, if you like, are within the evolutionary chain. Later on when he’s a serious part of the Zionist Movement, he stops being so critical of religion. But it’s important to remember he totally rejects religion because to him it’s about human evolution within an evolutionary chain. And he really does believe that religion has been used and it bears no notion of reality. He sees it, if you like, as part of the magic and the seas that were so fashionable in turn of the century capitals. He acknowledged, he says this, “We acknowledged the struggle for existence "as the inevitable foundation of all law and morality”. Religion, he goes as far as to say, “Was a physical relic of childhood. "It’s a functional weakness”. And he believed that all cultural, social and economic advances were entwined in the evolutionary system. And this is what he has to say. “A time is coming when we will see a civilization "in which man will satisfy "and rational their need for rest and recreation, "for elevation of the mind, "for emotional release”. He says it has to be rational, emotional release has to be rational. It’s absolutely fascinating. He’s taking some of the ideas of the enlightenment and he’s saying even emotion must be rational elevation of the mind must be rational. And he said, when a solidarity of the human race must be the worship of a progressive and enlightened age, that’s why you can’t say he’s fascist or he’s communist. He isn’t, he doesn’t fit into, and that’s why I think he’s so brilliant. He doesn’t actually fit into any category. He said this, “Every separate act of religious ceremony "becomes a fraud when performed "by a cultivated man of the 19th century. "The continued existence of this ancient "partly prehistoric form of worship in the midst of our modern civilization is a monstrous fact. "And the position according to the clergyman, "the European equivalent of an Indian medicine man "or an African commander of the faithful, "is such an insolent triumph of cowardice, "hypocrisy and mental indolence over truth. "Courage of opinion is enough to characterise "our civilization as a complete fraud "and our political and social order as temporary”.

So do you see how this, how iconoclastic this is? Let me repeat this ‘cause it’s very important. When you think what is going to happen to Nordau and in the end he’s going to tie and his locked with Zionism, every separate act of a religious ceremony becomes a fraud when performed by a cultivated man of the 19th century. We have to triumph over all of this. We must have courage of our opinions and that has got to be our civilization. And if we don’t do that, if we don’t become rational in our approach to every aspect of life and we get rid of all the irrational, then we have no hope. And as a result of that, practically every important intellectual he completely scorns. He scorns Wagner, he scorns Nietzsche, he scorns Tolstoy. In fact, many people fight. Now I know that Patrick does, and Patrick’s actually written about, he’s written about Max Nordau in his great book on, his art criticism book. And he says, I’ll get you the quote of Patrick “Degeneration presents an extraordinary mixture "of pseudoscience, misinformation and wild prejudice "which seems all the more sinister "in the light of German history”. Nevertheless, George Bernard Shaw took it seriously enough to write a short book and replied to it. And in his day, Nordau was very widely read and very influential. He also lambasted writers like Zola, Whitman, Berlin. He despite all their huge philosophical differences, they are all deemed degenerate by Nordau. And that’s what is destroying European societies. It is their irrationality that he has a problem with. So Nordau becomes this incredibly controversial figure. And to make his life even more complicated, he meets this woman, Olga Levatsilova, who is this important, who is this important Russian aristocrat. And why I’m bringing her into the story is because it’s rather bizarre that one of the founding fathers of Zionism was madly in love, you know, talk about rationality. And yet when it comes to his own life, he’s madly in love with a woman who is a violent anti-Semite. One of her main focuses in being in Britain was to write many letters to the salons. Her worldview, at the centre of her worldview was anti-Semitism. And people like Gladstone went to her salons.

And at the height of Tsar’s depression, there were public meetings in London and she tried through letters to The Times, and through her influential friends to divide British public opinion for actually supporting and helping Russian Jews. She described Jews as hateful locusts. The relationship began when she sent an admiring letter to him. People didn’t realise he was Jewish at this stage of his life. In the letter she loves the way that you… She wrote to him, “I love the way "that you break the conventional lies "of our civilization”. The letters they did meet sometimes, but it’s actually the emotional depth of their letters are so fascinating. He gradually does become more and more angry with her over anti-Semitism. One of the things she wrote, the Jewish question in London is different to the Jewish question in London, an army of 60,000 is far less dangerous than an army of 4,500,000. He for a long time he tries to overcome it, but he does, by December, 1889, by which time he is changing his views on the Jewish question, not on Judaism. He writes this to her after one of her really tough letters in The Times. “I do not judge whether the Russian Jews "have any patriotism, if they do, "they are neither angels or object slaves, "but certainly not human beings. "Whose fault is that their condition is so miserable? "Who other than holy Russia, "they are forbidden from living "in most provinces of the country. "Forbidden intellectual centres, "entry into high schools and universities, "forbidden all careers "and you approach them for being uneducated, "for exploiting the people, "of not loving Russia, "really is this you the open heart, the great spirit, "the noble and sympathetic creature who talks this way.”

And then he says something quite extraordinary. “Each country has the Jews it deserves, "give the Jews the freedom to become educated, "to become men, to become Russians, "and you will see in 10 years all this results "and you will see all the results of this freedom. "Even if they are everything you say that would not justify "massacring them, burning them, "maiming them, raping their wives and daughters. "One does not treat rabbits "or scabrous dogs in the way these humans have been treated. "But there are things you do not know my charming friend.” And he signs the letter, at your feet. You know, ironically it’s in the letters to Olga that we really begin to understand his relationship with Nordau. And Nordau doesn’t finally break with her until after he marries. And it should be said Nordau after his father dies, his mother who was religious, lived with him until her death. And he does marry the daughter of the wife, a very close friend of his who was a Danish Protestant. And they have a daughter, Maxa and Nordau has her baptised, allows the wife to baptise her. And Olga Levatilova questions him about this in the letters which he keeps on responding to. And really the final break comes over that. But as I said, it’s in his letters that we find out more about Herzl. Can we have a look at some of the more slides, if you don’t mind Judi. That is the copy, one of the copies of “Degeneration”. I cannot start–

• [Judi] Sorry to interrupt you, Trudy, but I can hear the tapping of the pen and it’s distracting.

• I’ll throw it away. I’ll throw it away.

• [Judi] Thank you. Sorry.

• It’s a terrible habit. Yes, thank you. That’s the copy of one of the most famous additions. And that is the beautiful Olga Novikoff. Sorry I’ve been miss pronouncing her name. I get too excited. Very, very beautiful. Married to a Russian prince from an aristocratic background, very much at the centre of the great salons. And of course hold up at the Savoy in London through the winter. And really part of that Russian circle of aristocrats who saw the Jews as all the evils of the world. And you’ve also got to remember by the 1880s, 1890s, a disproportionate number of Russian Jews were attracted to the communist movement. And as far as people like Olga was concerned, there is this international conspiracy. And what he’s fascinating is this Jewish writer is passionately in love with her for a long time within his life. And he finally breaks with her over her antisemitism. But it’s actually quite extraordinary because if you read some of the letters, even that letter where he chastises her for being so anti-Semitic, nevertheless, at the end he says, I’m at your feet. It’s absolutely extraordinary. At the second Dreyfus trial, he’s still writing to her and he complains that her letters are from Leib parole, but he still writes with love and affection. Anyway, it’s really from the letters that we find out how his relationship with Herzl develops from his point of view. And according obviously what we know is they both knew each other in Paris. Why? They were both German Budapest Jews. They were both working as foreign correspondent. This is from 1891, Herzl goes to Paris as the foreign editor for the Neue Freie Press, the paper of Benedict.

And he of course has become quite a famous figure for his and his playwriting, but Nordau is by far the most successful and the most famous and he’s also writing for many papers. He hardly ever writes for the Neue Freie Press. He thinks it’s much too frivolous. He’s a very famous doctor, he is a very famous writer, and he’s a very secure position in the Parisian literary world. And they develop a relationship. And according to Herzl they meet for a talk in 1895. And that is they meet over a glass of beer in a cafe in Paris. And that is where, according to Herzl, Nordau is converted to Zionism. But it takes Nordau more and more time. It’s a much slower process according to his letters from the Levatolova. But the point is, the situation in Russia was becoming so terrible that even writers like Tolstoy were condemning what was going on in Russia. And going back to the whole business with Olga, I think he, one of his last letters is absolutely fascinating. “You are gracious for pardoning me "for not believing in Jesus Christ, "an excellent Christian arian by blood "and a greater noble thinker”. And this is the last real letter that he writes to her. “If you can prove to me the existence "and divinity of Jews’ Christ "as clearly as the innocence of drapes has been proven, "I will believe in him "and will conform to his moral doctrine, "which is Jewish morality”. Okay. So I think this is absolutely important because this is really the impact of the Dreyfus affair. He’s convinced of Dreyfus innocence and he’s mocking her now. And this is really the final straw. He no longer sends her Christmas cards. She writes to him a very, very angry letter. She keeps nagging him about his daughter’s baptism. And by 1902, the rupture is absolutely secure. But going back to Nordau, he begins to see it’s the Dreyfus affair. Not at first. Remember Herzl was actually in the box, the journalist box when Dreyfus was publicly dishonoured. And for him, he’s all… Herzl, I’m going to talk more about him on Thursday. He was always searching for some kind of answer.

Nordau by this time he, one of the things, of course you cannot live in Paris, Budapest, or Vienna and not be aware of the nascent antisemitism. Now it’s totally irrational for Nordau the rationalist, he’s beginning to realise what a terrible disease it is and just maybe, just maybe there has to be another solution. So it’s not that he rejects his other views, it’s just that the anti-Semitism is so potent by the 1890s. And remember, he and Herzl are interesting because they are both double outsiders. They are both outsiders from the Jewish tradition. None of them have the benefit of the community or really the love of Judaism. They both are in love with German culture. They both write in German, remember, although both of them had many languages, they were both born in Budapest. So think about the double alienation from Budapest to Vienna, and now they’re both in Paris where Nordau spends most of his time and the Dreyfus affair. You know Herzl had written back in his diary in 1891, Paris is the centre of civilization. It will take the rest of the world a hundred years to achieve what the French have achieved. And then he’s there for Dreyfus. Where whipped up by the mob, when Dreyfus is publicly dishonoured, the mob don’t scream death to Dreyfus they scream death to the Jews. And they’re also acutely aware of the anti-Semitism in the Kaisers Germany in Berlin, the appalling anti-Semitism, which we’ve discussed in Vienna, in Budapest. So what is the hope? And Herzl comes up with this answer, and it’s actually Nordau who sends him on his road to London. And can we see the next slide please, Judi? Yes. There of course is the extraordinary Theodore Herzl, Those wonderful Eyes, the tall imposing Theodore Herzl, more about him on Thursday. And can we see the next slide please? Because that is another fascinating character, the incredibly interesting writer, Israel Zangwill.

Israel Zangwill, who wrote many, many books including “Children of the Ghetto” “Dreamers of the Ghetto”. Those of you who haven’t taken time to read them, give yourself a wonderful treat. He was called the Jewish Dickens, an extremely bright character. He was part of a group called the Kilburn Wanderers, and he lived at 24 Oxford Road Kilburn. And it was to his house that Nordau sent letters of introduction for Herzl. And of course Herzl addresses the Maccabi and the rest is history that we’re going to talk about on Thursday. And I will be referring back to Israel Zangwill, an extraordinarily important writer and an interesting figure also in Zionism. He, by the way, many of you will know this, but it’s he who created the phrase, the melting pot. And he was a, it’s written in a play he wrote in America. It’s a play called The Melting Pot. And that was his dream of America. So can we go to the next slide please. Now this is the first Zionist Congress. Because finally Herzl writes it all down Der Judenstaat. And if you remember, he sends the first copies to Kadima in Vienna. He meets huge opposition from the Jews of Vienna, the Jews of Paris, the Jewish establishment are totally against Zionism, apart from a few notable exceptions, obviously, because what are the Jews of Germany trying to do? What are the Jews of the German Jews of Vienna trying to do? What are the French Jews of Paris trying to do to prove that they are loyal Europeans? And it’s Theodore Herzl, who is mockingly called the King of the Jews by characters like Karl Krauss, the brilliant satirist. He is mocked and it’s Nordau who stands with him. And it’s Nordau who the famous Nordau that really is, if you like he’s the man that gives credibility to the movement.

Obviously when the first Zionist Congress was proclaimed they were going to hold it in Munich, but the Jewish citizens of Munich persuaded the Munich authorities not to because they thought that it would cause dual loyalty. Because how can you say to people, we want to create a Jewish state when you are trying hard to become a citizen of the Jewish religion of the Hapsburg Empire, which is so complex as we’ve looked at it from so many angles of Germany, of France. So Zionism is a slap in the face, and the majority of the delegates come from Russia. And you can imagine the Jews of the Russian Empire. Herzl made them all dressed in frock coats and tails. It’s finally held in ball because as I said, it couldn’t be held in Munich. Everyone is in frock coats and tails. It is to be terribly formal. And Herzl found much of the, if you like, the magic that he created at the conference by attending Varcna operas. Herzl and Nordau are incredibly contradictory characters, and it’s Nordau who really gives the great opening speech at the Zionist Congress. And he says basically, and I’m going to read a few extracts from his speech. “The nations which emancipated the Jews "have mistaken their own feelings "in order to produce its full effect "anti-emancipation should have been completed "in sentiment before it was declared by law. "But this was not the case. "The history of Jewish emancipation "is one of the most remarkable pages "in the history of European thought. "The emancipation of the Jew "was not the consequence of the conviction. "That grave injury had been done to a race "that had been treated most terribly "and it was time to atone for the injustice "of a thousand years. It was solely the result of the geometrical mode of thought of French nationalism of the 18th century.

It was constructed by the aid of logic which help without taking into account living sentiments and the principles of certain mathematical action. The emancipation of the Jews was an automatic application of the rationalist method. He wants rationalism but he realises it will never happen. And he realises that anti-Semitism is totally irrational, but the point is you cannot cure it. He says there is only one country in England, which is free from the taint of antisemitism. Another session, another sign, and he’s another time because that of course is an extraordinary statement, which of course I believe is completely mis-paced. Nevertheless, it’s something that we will argue through later on. He says, "emancipation has totally changed "the nature of the Jew and made him into another being. "The Jew without any rights did not live "the prescribed yellow badge on his coat "because it was an official invitation to the mob "to commit brutalities and justified in anticipation. "But voluntarily he did much more "to make his separate nature more distinct "even than the yellow badge could do. "The authorities did not shot him up in a ghetto. "He built one for himself. "He would dwell with his own and have no relations. "But those are business with Christians. "The word ghetto is associated with feelings of shame. "But the ghetto, what may have been the intention "of the people who created "was for the Jew of the past, not a prison but a refuge. "It is only historic truth if we say "that only the ghetto gave the Jews the possibility "to survive the terrible persecution of the Middle Ages”. You see this incredibly intelligent man who has denied, not exactly denied, but Jewishness has been completely irrelevant to him. And now he realises he’s becoming more and more interested in Jewish history and he realised what it’s done. The psychology of the ghetto, the wall of law on one level kept the Jews safe, but now came emancipation.

The law assured the Jews, they were full citizens of their country in its honeymoon, evoked also from Christian feelings, which warmed and purified their hearts. The Jews hastened in a species of intoxication to burn their boats. They had now another home, they no longer needed a ghetto. They now have other connections were no longer forced to exist only with their co-religionists. And then he goes on to say, they flooded into modernity. They were so grateful they mimic the Gentiles. And for a few generations, two generations, Nordau said they were allowed to believe they were only German, French, Italian and so forth. And that’s exactly what Nordau believed all at once. 20 years ago, after slumber of 30 to 60 years, anti-Semitism once more broke out from the innermost steps of the nations and revealed to the highest the mortification of the Jew, his real situation which he could no longer see. He was still allowed to vote for members of parliament, but he was excluded from the clubs and the meetings of his fellow Christian countryman. He was allowed to go wherever he pleased, but everywhere he was met with the inscription, no Jew admitted. He still have the right of discharging all the duties of the citizen, but the noble rights which are granted to talent and for achievement would doubt absolutely denied him. Such is the existing liberation of the Jew. Before the emancipation the Jew was a stranger amongst the peoples, but never did he believe in making a stand against fate. He believed he belonged to a race of his own, which had nothing in common with the other people’s. The emancipated Jew is insecure in his relations with his fellow beings, timid with strangers, suspicious even towards the secret feeling of his friends. His best powers are exhausted in the suppression or at least the difficult concealment of his real character, et cetera, et cetera. Try and get hold of it online.

The Max Nordau’s address at the first sign is Congress. It’s very long, I’ve just pulled out for you the main threads. So the Congress of course lasted for three days. And at the end of it, Herzl wrote in his diary, “Today I created the Jewish state maybe in five years, "certainly in 50, it will be a reality”. And those of you who are interested in the, I suppose in these rather strange conundrums, it’s fascinating that 50 years later, United Nations actually partitioned Palestine. So many things happened in the intermediate time, so we have to be careful. Herzl also said, “Let’s sovereignty be granted us "over a portion of the globe large enough "to satisfy the requirements of the nation”. Now Herzl and Nordau stayed together in the Zionist endeavour, and I’m going to be dealing with that far more when I deal with Herzl. And of course within the Zionist movement, there were many splits, many differences of opinion. For example, Ahad Ha'am and cultural Zionism found Herzl and Nordau’s approach very, very complicated. And they didn’t like it. They felt it was far too political. What about the Jewish culture? People like the young Turk High invites men really had a very negative view of Nordau, particularly after Herzl’s death. The two did not get on at all. Israel Zangwill will after Herzl’s death is going to go on a completely different track. And everything really blew up after terrible pogrom in Kishinev. In 1903, there was the most appalling pogrom in Kishinev. And it got an incredible amount of attention. Why? Because Kishinev was a border town and information was telegraphed all over the world. And there were terrible, it had a terrible impact on liberal people in America, in Britain, there was the letters of protest about Kishinev. In fact, Bialek wrote an amazing poem about the Kishinev pogrom more about that at another time. But it was a terrible event and it really pinpointed to Herzl the dangers of what was going on. And Nordau is completely with him on this. And at the same time the British proposed a very strange offer.

They offered the Zionist, a homeland in East Africa. It was called the Uganda offer. Ironically, it was the Russian delegates led by those from Kishinev who said, no, it’s only in our ancient homeland can we hope to reconstitute the state. That is what we have an affection to. That is what we are tied to. But in many ways, the sophisticated Europeans Nordau and Herzl they walked the world. Yes, they’re now giving their largest to the Jewish people. And in fact, Herzl gave his life to it. He died when he was 44, remember? But they believe, let’s take Uganda as a stepping stone. It was turned down by the Congress, and in 1903 at the Kadima Ball, there was actually a ball. Kadima had a Maccabean Ball and a man called Luben shot Nordau, didn’t kill him, but shot him and for his traitorous fused on East Africa. After Herzl’s death, the Congress split wide open. And there isn’t really strong leadership until Weitzman takes over. Herzl believed that Nordau should follow him, but he actually wrote, “I can assure you that "he will lead the cause as well as I did and better”. Nordau after Herzl’s death, Nordau declines the presidency. He was totally opposed to Ahad Ha'am. He had a very, very bad relationship with High and Viceman. But he’s still very involved in very interesting work. And one of the issues that he wanted very much to put into Zionism is what he called muscular Judaism. Now this is an idea that is going to be later carried on by that incredible young firebrand from Odessa, Vladimir Jabotinsky. So those of you will know their biographies so well.

But you see that with Herzl and Nordau, I’m introducing you to the people who are actually going to shape the destiny of the state of Israel. Now, already within Christianity there was a movement known as Muscular Christianity. If you think of the young men’s, YMCA, they wanted physically fit bodies to harness to belief in whatever. Now with with the Christians, it’s Christianity. Now remember, Max Nordau is an atheist. He stops being so rude about Judaism after he becomes involved with Herzl. Can you imagine the man who is number two to Herzl, the most famous of the Zionists, married to a Danish Christian who allows his daughter to be baptised. You can imagine the impact this has on people like high invites men who was so much a man of, really a man of the pale. He was a man of Russian Jewry. Yes, he was an educated man, but he was steeped in it. He was steeped in the tradition. Ahad Ha'am, a spiritual man who he believed that the justification for a Jewish state was that it would become the cultural, moral, and spiritual wellspring of the Jewish world that would shed light to the diaspora and to the Jewish people in Israel. So these are completely different characters. And now you have Max Nordau taking that idea and saying, what we need to do is to get rid of the notion of the puny June, can we go on please, Judi, with the slides.

Now he gives an address already. Cadi Murray is very interesting in his views. Remember they have a fencing society and German students are no longer giving Jewish satisfaction. And this is address he gave to a Jewish fencing of a Jewish society, a Zionist society in June, 1903, and this is an extract. “I said we must think of creating once again a Jewry "of muscles for history is our witness that such a Jewry "has once existed. "For too long we have been engaged "in the mortification of our own flesh. "Or rather to put it more precisely "other did the killing of our flesh forests. "If unlike most other peoples, "we do not concede a physical life "as our highest possession. "It is nevertheless fairly valuable to us. "The desire of going back to a glorious past "finds a strong expression "in the name which the Jewish Gymnastic Club "has chosen for itself. "Bar Kochba was a hero who refused to no defeat. "Bar Kochba was the last embodiment "in world history of a militant Jewry”. Now this is very, very important and I’m going to read a little more from his address. Our new muscle Jews, Maskol Juden, have not yet regained the heroism of our forefathers, who in large numbers, easily entered the sports arena in order to take part in competition and to pit themselves against the highly trained Hellenistic athletes and the powerful Nordic barbarians. But morally, even now, the new muscle Jews surpassed their ancestors for the ancient Jewish circus fighters were ashamed of their Judaism and tried to conceal the sign of the covenant by means of a surgical operation. This is going back to that really extraordinary time when helenizing Jews actually were ashamed of circumcision. Whilst the members of the Bar Kochba Association loudly and proudly affirm their national loyalty made the Jewish Gymnastic Club flourish and thrive and become an example to be imitating all senses of Jewish life. So what’s he saying? He wants strong, physically strong Jews. And of course these ideas are later going to be taken on by Jabotinsky.

And what happens to Max Nordau after the death of Herzl? He gradually withdraws more and more from the Zionist movement, mainly because of the opposition from characters like Ahad Ha'am, characters like Haim Batsman. Of course, when World War I broke out, he is a Budapest born Jew living in Paris. So he has to exile himself in neutral Spain. He did favour Jabotinsky’s idea of a legion. Remember Jabotinsky creates a legion that took, when he creates two legions, he with Joseph Trumpeldor he creates the Zion Mul Corps, and later on he creates the 37th and 38th Royal Falis, which fight for the British. But he did believe that Zionist should remain neutral in the first World War. He said, look, you’ve got Jews in Germany, in the Habsburg Empire in France. Why on earth are you taking sides? So he attached a certain amount of contact with Jabotinsky, and in 1920, he gave a very important address at the Royal Albert Hall. He stated that if the Balfour Declaration meant anything, it needed political independence in Palestine. He wanted political independence now, and why was he screaming about this? Because between 1918 and 1921, upwards of a hundred thousand Jews were murdered in the terrible pogroms in the Ukraine. And he advocated the evacuation of Jews to Palestine now.

The leadership of the Zionist organisation completely rejected it as impractical. He said, we’ve got to save our people now. Could it have ever happened? Very, very unlikely. But it’s interesting that in the late 30s when times were so dark, Jabotinsky proclaimed exactly the same plan, evacuate them now, and in a nod to the past, he named it the Max Nordau clan. Now, what happens to Nordau is he goes back to Paris at the end of the war. He dies in Paris in 1923. In 1926, his coffin was brought to Palestine and he was buried in 1949 on Mount Herzl, along with Herzl, some of the other great figures of Zionism. So what have we talked about? We’ve talked about an incredibly complicated man, very controversial, I find some of his… I’ve emitted, I find many of his ideas completely problematic, particularly in degeneration. But nevertheless, he was a brilliant man and he was so important to putting Zionism on the map and a certain strand of Zionism, which later on I suppose you can make the case. There’s a lot of arguments on this that Jabotinsky’s view of Zionism, much of it owes itself to Max Nordau. So let me stop now. We’ll be continuing Zionism, of course, with Herzl. So let’s have a look at the questions. Can I go to the questions? Yes.

Q&A and Comments:

My family history in Germany has been tutored by an archivist, and she said Jews were required to change their names. Yes, that’s true of many places. It’s also true of the Habsburg Empire. And Michael’s saying Jabotinsky and Begin both spoke, spoke 12 languages each. I can believe that. It’s interesting, isn’t it? I find it absolutely mind blowing. Nordau spoke 15, that people can actually absorb those kind of languages. I believe there was a man at the United Nations who had 32.

This is comment. What a pity if he could have remained Jewish as well as feeling German. Yeah, I think he took on, you see surely at the beginning he took on many of the views of anti-Semites. That’s one of the problems you deal with if you are an intelligent intellectual, and you fall in love with the culture that you belong to. He loved German culture. He turns against what he sees the degeneration in it. But he loved the German language. Now what do you mean Rod? By me remaining Jewish again, we’ve got that terrible issue for both Herzl and Nordau. So wasn’t a religious Jew, their definition was a response to antisemitism. We are a nation. So many Jews today still try and walk the tightrope. I think if you are religious in a way it’s easier because you can say your definition is religious, but you have to walk that tightrope, don’t you? Is it possible to be a loyal citizen of the country in which you live of the Jewish religion? Where does nationhood fit into all of it? What about cultural Judaism? What about all those Jews who are not religious? They might have Zionist simply but they don’t live in Israel and they feel a cultural affiliation to Jews. There’s a wonderful phrase of Elias Conetis. He said there are no people more difficult to understand than the Jews.

Michael said, I read “Degeneration” in English with a dictionary next to me. His language Michael is very Turgid actually.

Q: Was Nordau a Zionist?

A: Yes, he was a Zionist. He was a Zionist Teddy, yes. After his meeting with Herzl and even more, I think it’s the, the first Dreyfus trial didn’t really plunge him in. It’s the second trial in Ren, you know, where the Monarchists behaved and the Catholics, they behave in such an anti-Semitic way, he realises this is the cure to anti-Semitism Zionism.

Ah, this is from Ken. Thank you Ken, he wrote a more, a well-known response to Antarctica degeneration called the “Sanity of Art”. Thank you very much Ken. And actually Ken, Ken is soon lecturing on Oto Vinegar, which is very important. What was he defining as degeneracy?

And this is wonderful. This is from Ken. The clearest notion we can form of degeneracy is regarded as a morbid deviation from an original type. The morbid variation does not continually subsist and propagate itself like one that is healthy, but fortunately is soon rendered sterile and after a few generation often dies out before it reaches the lowest grade of organic degradation. In fact, Ken goes on to say, in fact the notion of degeneracy is so wide ranging as to elude any coherent definition. Thank you Ken. I should have phoned you before the lecture. I have been grappling with this for days. The last bit is me Nordau. I understand that. Thank you. Oh, thank you Howard, a compliment.

Q: Rose, read Dr. Nordau, no doubt, although his father was a rabbi and as you stated, walked away from his religious roots. But how one can frequent an anti-Semite, what is the principle of respecting your parents at all? Is that not shocking even in our reality?

A: Yes, Rose, I think he’s an incredibly complicated person. The fact that his mother who was religious, lived with him. Yeah, I think for a sensitive character, Max Nordau is problematic no question. Many of the… I think, let me put it this way. We all have terrible flaws. Every one of us, I think that walks the world, Nordau walked the stage so did Herzl, you know, after Herzl died notion was, Nordau said, don’t publish his letters. Everyone would know he’s crazy. You see, that’s the problem. Nordau had a touch on it. I think if you actually want to wallow in degeneration and I can’t, I find it absolutely impossible. It’s a really strange book. It made him a very famous, he wrote much on these kind of themes. He was also, by the way, a very interesting travel writer. He was broad, he was big. But as far as Judaism is concerned, a friend of mine who I don’t agree with went as far as to say he actually thought he suffered from Jewish self hatred. And the fact that he had an affair for so many years with a notorious anti-Semite is in itself fascinating. I’m not clear where you are positioning Nordau social Darwinism, I think he was a product of those ideas Jack, that’s the point.

This is from Uzi. The name of my Tel Aviv grade school was Tel Nordau. None of the kids had any idea who Nordau was. And one wonders how many of the parents did. Of course, Tel Aviv also has a Nordau Boulevard institution and monuments. You see, that’s the point. You know that we could run a whole course on the streets of Tel Aviv. In fact, there is a book called “The Streets of Tel Aviv” which looks at the incredible characters who created Zionism. There are many other characters as well. And don’t forget that they were so, they so quarrelled with each other. I mean, Viceman loathed Nordau, and Nordau loathed him right back. Was baptism not regarded by Nordau was irrational. Yes, of course it was, but the point is, that’s what his wife wanted. And in fact, in a previous lecture, one of the groups said that Maxa Nordau regarded herself as a Jew. Now I don’t know that, I mean, she died in 1993. She was in her 90s. I’d like whoever it was to perhaps come back on chat.

Q: When did Olga learn that he had Jewish roots?

A: Oh, I think quite early on. I think there’s also something, there’s something rather dark in that kind of sexual relationship I think, that I don’t really want to go into. But I think we can speculate on that. Michael, a small town near Natania is named after Nordau, Nodia.

Oh Jules, this is good information. Zangwill’s books can be down loaded for Free. ‘Children of the Ghetto’ is brilliant. It’s thumb now sketches of Israeli, Henner, or by the way, Nordau and I didn’t really have time to go into this. Nordau is very much influenced by Henner. He really admired Henner. The name of Zangwill’s book. He wrote many books that I have a huge collection, but I’m recommended to you “Children of the Ghetto” and “Dreamers of the Ghetto”. I wish you would do a section on Jabotinsky.

Mitski one of the problems is that I did about a year and a half ago, I’ve been discussing this with Wendy and I think when we come into Russia, as long as I can do it in a different way for those of you that already heard it, I think we do have to. I think so many of you have joined new that I think it will be important. But we are thinking of ways of trying to weave it in so that it can be fresh for those of you who have already heard of Jabotinsky, our sessions on Jabotinsky. And of course if we’re going to look at Jabotinsky, we’re also going to have to look in depth at so many of them. Leon, there were a few women at the first Sinus Congress. I actually have a photograph of it that was given to me by somebody whose grandmother was there. Yeah, they were still second class. You see, this is the problem on emancipation. But I do want to put in a word, you know, there was a disproportionate number of Jewish women at the University of Vienna. Yes, of course compared with men. But so still a wrong way to go.

Oh, this is from Hadassa. My great-grandfather attended the conference in Bal from London with his young son. He is mentioned by Herzl on the first page of his diary, Hadassa, that’s absolutely oh, absolutely fascinating. You know, that’s what I love about this group. My grandfather was supposed to go but became ill and died.

That’s from Deborah. It’s so many family memories. There were early religious Zionist. Yes, of course there were Deborah. We need to talk about them as well.

My great-grandfather, Rabbi Yosef Yafeh of the Central Shore in Manchester was one, he died a few days before the first Congress, which he was set to attend. Yes, there weren’t that many religious Zionists because majority believed, but certainly the Hassids were not because only the Messiah could lead them back.

And Marcia has found for you the address to the Zionist Congress.

Sheila Chi, I read when doing research about the protocols that they originated in Kishinev. I unfortunately don’t remember the name of the author. Yes, that is a brilliant book on Kishinev. My brain’s gone ‘cause I interviewed him for Jewish Book Week. They didn’t actually in… He doesn’t believe that there are lots of different views of the origins of the protocols. They were certainly serialised by a man called Krushiven, who was an agent of the Arama. He was the editor of the Besser Rabbits, the Kishinev newspaper. And it was certainly one of the reasons behind the pogrom. And if my daughter’s online, she can pop up the name of the author. Brilliant Steve Zipperstein. Was it Steve? Brilliant, brilliant book. It’s called “Kishinev”. There were over 300 at the first Sinus Congress. And the Jews from all over the world did attend, but there were more journalists than delegates. You see, don’t forget Herzl and Nordau were journalists, but can you imagine the world Jewry is assembling to create a Jewish state, now that is a title. It’s a bit like the protocols in reverse. There are some writers who believe that we know that…

The protocols also appeared in Paris at the time of the Dreyfus affair. Now how much was it tied up with the first line is Congress, because there were different versions of the protocols, that’s the problem. It’s such a ghastly, dangerous little book.

John, my Orthodox great-grandparents left Romania and fled to Israel before the war. There’s no trace of the This is a quote from E.E. Cummings. “To be nobody but yourself "in a world that’s doing its best day and night "to make you everybody else "means to fight the hardest battle "which any human being can fight.” This is perhaps what these folk like Nordau et al, should have engraved into their souls. Rose. I agree with you. That’s a wonderful quote. Thank you for giving us that. I think the problem is Rose, that they so fell in love with European culture. They couldn’t bear the rejection. You know, these are the case studies. It’s no accident I’m sticking my neck out.

Could Freud have been anything but a Jew? Sam Copelovich. I want to share my favourite Yiddish saying. My pronunciation is always bad. I would like to be someone else who will be like me. Fabulous. Sam. Thank you. E.E. Cummings is no friend of the Jews do enjoy his poetry, but not the man. You, this is the problem. This is always the problem. Would you refer to Herzl and Nordau as political Zionist since they were not really fueled by the orthodoxy of Judaism? Very much so. They were political Zionist. And you see Ahad Ha'am loathed political Zionism on one level because he believed that it had to come organically from the people. But the point is, if it hadn’t been for Herzl, Herzl made the big powers take notice. Never forget that when Ben-Gurion proclaimed the state, it was under a portrait of Theodore Herzl.

This is from Devar Pullum. I have a copy of a book given to me by my husband’s grandfather, Theodore Herzl memorial that begins with a poem written by Israel Zangwill. Do you know the poem? It starts with Farewell O’ Prince. Farewell O’ solely tried. You dreamed a dream and you have paid the cost. Yes, it’s absolutely wonderful. And Zangwill also said something very interesting in Bal. He said, we lay down by the rivers of Babylon and wept. We lay down by the rivers of Bal and we were weak no more. It must be said that Herzl did go to Shul in Bal. Ken, Max Nordau hands arguably encapsulates certain antisemitic notions. Namely that Jews as cosmopolitans have become effeminate and to some extent degenerate. Yes, Ken. Jabotinsky takes this even further with beta. And he talks about Hadar and how must a Jew be. Might be worth mentioning connection between Hitler and Nordau. Recall Hitler’s degenerate art exhibition? Yes. These are the complications. In fact, I have a film of the degenerate art exhibition and it’s on a video. I wonder if I get it transferred.

This is from Eleanor, Bar Kokhba led a revolt against the Romans that ended the death of over half a million Judians. Not a great hero in my mind. Now, who is the saviour of the Jewish people? Bar Kokhba or Ben Zakkai. That’s the debate, isn’t it?

This is Frank. In my younger days I was a member of the Bar Kokhba Gymnastic Club.

This is from Arthur. My great uncle from Montreal was a volunteer with the 39th Battalion of Royal Fliers and Port 14 Palestine. Oh Arthur, that’s amazing. You know, Jabotinsky took the salute. Evidently the British couldn’t pronounce Jabotinsky, they called him Jagger whiskey. He was lieutenant Jagger whiskey. And the Lord Mayor of London took the salute. It must have been quite extraordinary. Oh, so many memories.

This is from Susan. You mentioned Jews in fencing. I recommend the film “Sunshine” starring Ralph Fes. It’s about three generations of Hungarian Jewish family. Yes. The Hungarian fencing team at the Olympics had a disproportionate number of Jews. Now I know why there’s a Nordau Street in Tel Aviv, say Yvonne.

Q: What years did Pogrom massacres of hundred thousand people occur in the Ukraine?

A: Between 1918 and 1921. And actually week after next at 2:30 English time. We are partnering Jewish Book Week in a series of lectures. And one of the books that I am actually, I’m interviewing Jeffrey Veidlinger, “In the Midst of Civilised Europe”. That is his book, and I think it’s Thursday week. I’m interviewing him at 2:30 for Jewish Book Week, which we are cooperating with. So we will all have the links to those books. And I will be talking about that when I look at the history of the Jews of Eastern Europe, it’s after the Russian Revolution. It’s a terrible, terrible story. And that’s what made Max Nordau think he needed to repopulate the Palestine because how are you going to save those Jews. In Canada now with our social unrest and university wokeness.

Q: So did Ben-Gurion speak two language?

A: I dunno how many languages Ben-Gurion spoke. He was born in Russia. He went to Amer… He certainly had English. I dunno what other languages he had. He had Russian English, he had Hebrew. Ben-Gurion was also irreligious by the way. Nordau is buried at the Trumpeldor cemetery, Shelly.

Q: And this is Deborah. Trudy I know this is off topic, but I’ve been watching the ‘fall of Eagles’. It’s really well done. But I’m very curious about one thing. The king’s emperors are betrayed as spoiled brats, arrogant and stubborn, and out of touch with reality, especially in Germany, are these characterizations accurate?

A: To a large extent, yes, I would agree with that. Yep. Yes, I would definitely agree with that. They’re hothoused. They weren’t aware of the swirling events around them. I think the one who was most out of touch was Nicholas II, but a lot about him.

Oh, this is from Cynthia. I knew Max’s daughter Maxa in Paris just after World War I when I went to Paris to study French. As they say, they were not religious, but strongly cultural Jews. You see that’s interesting because she was baptised by her pro… She was baptised, her mother was Christian. So that’s very interesting information. As an intellectual and rational man, could we say that the core of Judaism, even if not articulated, is the sanctity of human life? Yes, yes. I think many of those who flooded away from Judaism and threw themselves into modernity, I mean with Nordau he had a horror of religion. He saw it as completely superstitious. I think they wanted to be modern.

Q: This is from Diane. A very interesting question. Do you think that the world Zionist Congress has changed at all in having a pluralist view of Jews, Israel and the diaspora? I was a reformed Zionist delegate to the Congress in 1987.

A: That is such a complicated question, the relationship between Israel and the diaspora, and I think there are people better qualified to answer that for me, and Wendy wants so many of these challenging conversations. I think Diane, that is a brilliant idea for one of our challenging conversations. Deborah, the book given to me by Elias Poland, who is a 19th century Zionist, also contains 70 pages of writings of Theodore Herzl. “Children of the Ghetto” Marcia has actually sent us the link.

This is from Cynthia. I knew Maxa and she did consider herself a Jew. I was a friend of her daughter Claudia, in Paris. That is fascinating. Jean wants the original talk on Jabotinsky recorded. If so, please send it out to watch before the Russian talk. I think that’s going to be awfully complicated. So I think I would like to do it in a different way. So once the website is up, you will have access to everything. But that won’t happen for six months. So I think I can do it in a different way. Edna, it was me whose grandmother’s brother was married to Maxa. I knew her. She visited… This is from Edna Oppenheim.

Oh, this is extraordinary. She visited us in Israel. I often went to her apartment in Paris. She went around the world lecturing about her father to Jewish organisations and claimed to be a descendant of Abarbanel. My mother lived with him in Paris when she was young and regarded Madame Nordau as her grandmother. I have a few letters from Madam Nordau to my mother during the war. That is extraordinary. When war broke out and escaped from France successfully as we were Palestinian and hence helped by the British government, that is absolutely extraordinary. Wow. What can I say? This is what our group is all about. Yes, Teddy’s saying the protocols, or the series by Henry Ford Ronbrick. I’m interested in reading the protocols, but if I search them online, I’m concerned it become part of a white supremacy email. There is a way around that Ron. If you buy the Jew in the modern world, which it’s a source book edited by Yehuda Reinharts and poor Mendes Floor. There are extracts from the protocols. It’s very boring by the way. And in fact there are other, there’s a whole tract on… If you are in serious about Jewish history, I really advise you to read some of these things at Source. I mean, for example, “The Zionist Idea” originally by Alpha Hertzberg, which has been updated by Giltroy. You can read their texts. Anyway, I think we better stop there Judi, ‘cause we have another lecture by the brilliant Norman Labret at seven o'clock. Is that correct?

• [Judi] Yes. 7:00 PM UK time. So that’s in about 40 minutes.

• Okay. So thank you all and I will see you with Herzl on Thursday. And don’t worry about the Zionists lectures because when we look at Russia, don’t forget the majority of the Zionist came from the Russian Empire. So I will be spending quite a lot of time on them. And one of the ways I might teach Jabotinsky is through the town of Odessa, which also gives us an a very interesting way of looking at so many of the other incredible characters who inhabited that town. So thank you all very much, and have a good evening.

• [Judi] Thank you Trudy. Bye-bye everybody.

• [Trudy] And thank you Judi.

• [Judi] Bye-bye.