Trudy Gold
Nancy and Waldorf Astor and the Cliveden Set, Part 1

Trudy Gold - Nancy and Waldorf Astor and the Cliveden Set, Part 1

- Well, for the next two weeks I’m going to look at Nancy Astor, The Cliveden Set and Appeasement. Nancy Astor, of course, the American heiress is an incredibly controversial character. She was absolutely at the centre of appeasement, and whether that was negative or positive in the thirties is a very important question that I hope to address. Also, she was the first British woman to take her seat in parliament. She wasn’t the first to be elected. The first to be elected was Irish, but she was totally against the government in Britain, so she didn’t take her seat. So Nancy Astor is a bit of an icon of feminists. And in fact, when a statue was erected to her in Plymouth, because that was her constituency, she became the first sitting MP in 1919, Theresa May, the then Prime Minister, made a real thing about it. So did Boris Johnson. It was seen as something very, very special. The problem was that she’s very, very controversial and of course her spats with Churchill are absolutely famous. And I’m just going, before we get onto her story, she said to Churchill, “If you were my husband, I’d put poison in your tea.” And he said, “Madam, if I were your husband, I’d drink it with pleasure.” There’s another exchange, evidently between them when he came into the house and she said, “Mr. Churchill, you are drunk.” And he said, “Mrs. Astor, you are ugly, but tomorrow I will be sober.”

So I’m not saying either of them reflect very well on them, but it’s important to know what such, she was a totally controversial character. So, can we please see the first slide? Can we go on, Hannah? Yeah. That is what is going to be known as the Cliveden House. It’s the centre of the Cliveden Set. And they were a group of incredibly influential people who were very close to each other, and those of you who are South African, there’s a South African connection, because many of them come from what we call Milner’s kindergarten, Lord Milner’s kindergarten, a group of civil servants who worked with him in South Africa when he was the High Commissioner. And they are going to go on to become very important in Britain in the twenties and thirties. And over the next couple of weeks, I’m going to be talking about the Milner Kindergarten. And then of course, Wendy has been preparing an amazing series on South Africa. And that’s when we have some wonderful lecturers like Colin Bundy and like Milton Schein. And they will be talking to you more about South Africa. So in a way, this is going to cross-reference in, and they were called the Cliveden, they were actually called the Cliveden Crowd and that name, can we see the next slide please? That name is very controversial in itself because it was coined by a journalist called Claud Cockburn. Now he was a communist. He was born in Beijing into an English aristocratic background. His father was Henry Cockburn, who was the British Consul General. He was educated at boarding school and Oxford.

That’s all I ever seem to be saying to you when when I look at the backgrounds of the rich and the famous of this period, educated either at Eaton or another boarding school in Oxford or Cambridge. At Oxford, he was part of a club called the Hypocrites Club, and he was a cousin of Evelyn Waugh, and of course, Evelyn Waugh, very, very interesting British writer. He becomes a journalist. He works for “The times.” He became their correspondent in Germany until 1933. And then he becomes attracted to communist ideas. And I think it’s important to mention, because I think I do have to set this period in its time, Europe was a very dark place in the thirties. You had Stalin in Russia and did people really know what was going on under Stalin? But you had the rise of Hitler in Germany, you had Mussolini in Italy, you have the Civil War in Spain, you had total polarisation of politics in Britain, in France, and in Britain, it’s going to lead to coalition government in America, it’s going to lead to the New Deal. But in the main post World War I, it’s a pretty dark picture. And like many of these bright young things, he becomes a communist. And he starts his own newsletter called “The Week.” And he also contributed to the communist newspaper, “The Daily Worker.” And after Harry Pollitt, who was the General Secretary of the Communist Party in Britain, he asked him to cover the Spanish Civil War.

And he actually fought on it. He was quite close to quite a few Stalinists. And according to George Orwell, he falsely reported events. And his autobiography is “In Times of Trouble.” It’s really worth reading. But the point I’m making about him, it was him who coined the phrase, so be a little bit careful. But what the Cliveden set were, they certainly were a group of upper class individuals who are going to gather in Cliveden, which is go the home of Nancy and Waldorf Astor. And a lot of them were very close to a war in the British government. They were people of huge influence. And because of Claud Cockburn, they were seen as the appeasers. But there’s a lot of research going on now, and now we realise there was a large range of guests and it’s more complicated than that. But nevertheless, Nancy Astor is quite a complicated character when you are dealing with this period of history. She was a terrible snob. Was she an anti-Semite? I’m going to deal with that. Unfortunately, post the Russian Revolution, there’s a terrible phrase in anti-Semitism, somebody once said, “Anti-Semitism is to dislike Jews more than is reasonable.” And that was a phrase of an Israeli, an Israeli historian. And in a way, in the twenties, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, Jews as capitalists, Jews as communists, the majority of that class did have problems with Jews. So the question I’m going to ask is, was her anti-Semitism unreasonable? Anyway, let’s have a look at her biography first. So let’s have a look at it. She’s very beautiful. Churchill was completely wrong about her as far as I’m concerned. I think she’s an absolutely beautiful woman.

And she, can we see the next slide? She was born in Danville, Virginia. She was the 8 of 11 children of a huge American magnet. He fell on hard times and you can see that’s quite a hard times house. But he manages to recover his fortune and can we see where she was brought up? So by the time she’s 12, they’re living at Mirador. There are four sisters, three brothers who survived childhood. All the sisters are known for their great beauty. They go to finishing school in New York City. And of course, she marries young. Let’s have a look at her first husband. She marries Robert Gould Shaw II. He was a very wealthy landowner. He was an international polo player. This is the period, of course, when so many American heiress are coming to England to find Lords and Lords to marry. But it’s also a period when New York High Society has its own kind of Our Crowd, the the brand of its own aristocracy, the white Anglo-Saxon property class. And of course, fortunes are made in America, which make those in England seem very, very poultry. And he was part of that class. She was 18 years old when they married. The marriage is going to collapse after one year. Evidently, she wanted to get rid of him on the honeymoon. She was quite, later on she’s going to be quite a prudish woman, who knows what went on. But she was very unhappy in the marriage.

But they had one son. And can we have a look at the son, please? Robert Gould Shaw III, he was born four years after the marriage and unfortunately, he had a tragic life. He’s going to come to England because his mother’s going to move to England after she divorces his father. He goes into the military, he’s going to become a Lieutenant in the Horse Guards. He’s going to become part of the upper class English establishment. Unfortunately, at the time, he was a practising homosexual. And of course, it was a period, homosexuality was a crime right up until the sixties. And it was an imprisonable offence and he had suicidal tendencies. The stigma of homosexuality was something palpable and absolutely ghastly and evil. And if you think about it, it destroyed Oscar Wilde. It destroyed so many great creative people. And it’s fascinating, the reason lesbianism was not on the statute books is because nobody had the wit to tell Queen Victoria. She couldn’t have taken it. So lesbianism was not imprisonable, but homosexuality was. And he was imprisoned for six months and he becomes an alcoholic. And when his mother dies and also his half-brother, he becomes more and more morbid.

And he finally commits suicide way after his mother’s death, six years after his mother’s death and his ashes are at Cliveden. Cliveden, of course, is going to continue to be notorious because a descendant of the Astor’s of course, Lord Astor, Cliveden becomes the playground of an affair known as the Profumo Affair, when a British government minister was accused of having an affair with a call girl called Christine Keeler, who also had a lover who was a Russian spy. And the parties at Cliveden, which we’re going to talk about under Nancy Astor, much more state affairs, under her descendant, the notoriety continues. Anyway, so she comes to England after her husband, after the divorce. She comes with her younger sister, Phyllis. She had a very, very, very complicated personality. She was very devout, religiously. She was almost prudish in manner, but she had that American New York charm, which to the English, they found it very, very refreshing. And paradoxically, there was a saucy side to her. So this beautiful young woman, she comes to England on a boat and on the boat. Can we turn to the next slide please? She meets a man called Waldorf Astor. She’s not going to marry him for another couple of years, but finally in May, 1906, she’s going to marry him and his wedding present, to Nancy and Waldorf from the father, was Cliveden, which Nancy remodelled. You are now talking about unbelievable wealth. And they had five children together. And not only was Cliveden his present, but also a huge diamond. And now she’s moving into a world having come from a wealthy background, she’s now moving into a world of unbelievable wealth. And can we go on, can we go on to talk a little bit about the father? This is William Waldorf Astor.

Now, he had moved to Britain in 1891. He becomes Viscount Astor in 1917 because he gave huge amount of money to the war, to the British War effort. And don’t forget peers are now being made. Go back to the 1911 Budget of Lloyd George, which we’ve already talked about. Peers are created and William Waldorf Astor the American, who gives so much to charity, is now a member of the House of Lords. And can we go on now? Because can we go back to the husband? So the husband, what’s he going to do with his life there at Cliveden? And later on, Nancy’s going to be encouraged by her husband to enter politics. And we know that Waldorf himself, he is going to go into politics. He’s going to become the MP for Plymouth. He supports the people’s Budget of 1910. Now, in 1911, his father was approached, can we go on please? His father was, here you see the him as MP for Plymouth. His father is approached by, go on one more, next slide please. By Lord Northcliffe to buy “The Observer” newspaper. Lord Northcliffe was an incredible newspaper baron. I’ll talk more about him later. And he had managed to save the paper but he wanted to get rid of it. And the paper was bought by the father for his son. And on condition, that James Louis Garvin, his editor, would take over the Astor owned “Pall Mall Gazette” because the Waldorf’s were also in the newspaper business. So can we go on please? Next slide please. Now let’s have a little, let’s bring Viscount Northcliffe into the picture because it’s important that you understand that this is a period of great power where all sorts of people are coming into prominence. The world is beginning to change and the newspaper industry is becoming very, very important.

Now, Alfred Harmsworth who’s going to be made Viscount Northcliffe, he was actually born in Ireland into a freethinking family. His father came to live in northwest London and created something called the Sylvan Debating Club. Very much believed in freedom of speech, very, very bright man. He went into freelance journalism. He had a huge talent. He had a brother who was a brilliant businessman, very well connected. And he initiated his first newspaper when he was very young. And he becomes one of the main developers of popular journalism. And using advertising, he begins with “The Evening News.” And in 1896 he publishes “The Daily Mail,” which by the time of his death in 1922, had the world record for daily publications. It’s strap line, “The busy Man’s daily journal and penny newspapers for one half penny.” I can remember the pennies and the half pennies. And I’m sure there are those of you born in England who can as well. He also initiated “The Daily Mirror” and he had rescued “The Times” which he now wants to sell. And the next person, can we see the next slide please? Because they’re all, this is James Louis Garvin. Now he is the man, that one of the reasons Waldorf decides to buy “The Observer” is he wants this particular journalist who is going to become part of the Cliveden Set. He was a brilliant journalist, he was an editor, he’d worked his way up. This was also possible. It’s not just Eaton and Oxford now. He had begun in the newspaper business with the “Newcastle Evening Chronicle.” Those of you who don’t live in England, it’s a sort of big industrial town to the north of England where fortunes are being made.

Remember, this is the centre of the empire. Then “The Daily Telegraph,” he went to work for “The Daily Telegraph” in 1899. He moves to London and that’s when he’s approached by Lord Northcliffe to work for “The Daily Mail.” And he takes over “The Observer” and he reshapes it and he is going to become part of the Cliveden Crowd. So can we go on please, now? And he becomes the editor of “The Pall Mall Gazette” because this is another paper that is owned by the Astor family. And these are the papers. So “The Observer” and “The Pall Mall Gazette” are given to the sons as birthday gifts. Waldorf later sold “The Pall Mall Gazette” so that Garvin would focus on “The Observer.” And when Lloyd George becomes PM, Astor, Nancy’s husband, becomes his permanent parliamentary secretary and advisor to Lloyd George. And, but at his father’s death, he becomes, so when Waldorf Astor Senior dies, he becomes Viscount Astor, he goes to the House of Lords, he has to forfeit his seat in the House of Commons, so as a result of that, the seat is empty. And it’s at this stage that Nancy goes into politics. So can we please see the next slide? There you see Lloyd George’s Coalition Government, this is of course when Astor is Permanent Parliamentary Secretary.

So you see they’re already at the centre of government. This is important. To understand the importance of Cliveden, you need to get their backgrounds and that’s why I’m going to take two weeks to talk about them and all the people that are going to be part of it, which I hope is going to have a lot of resonance for our Canadian and South African viewers. Can we go on please? They have a lovely house in London. Those of you who know London, that is four St. James’ Square, one of the best addresses in London. And Nancy and her husband, Waldorf, they have a political set. They have all the money in the world and they are now making their home a centre of the life of interesting London. So it’s politicians, it’s artistic types, anyone who is part of their crowd. So this is where they gather. Can we go on please? And here the Nancy comes across the Milner’s Kindergarten. And when her husband steps down, she is going to stand and take on his seat for Plymouth. But I want to talk a little bit about Milner’s Kindergarten, but I’m going to talk a lot more about it later on because Milner’s kindergarten was a group of Eaton and Oxford types. When Lord Milner goes to South Africa as High Commissioner, he gathers around him a group of important individuals who are later on, many of them are going to be at the centre of the Cliveden Set. And later on when we come to the thirties and Hitler, they are going to be pushing for peace with Hitler.

And you know, the word appeasement has become so dirty. But I do want to try and hold an even keel because please, never forget that after the First World War, which was one of the dirtiest wars imaginable, it’s very important that you remember how many people were absolutely terrified of another war. And they did pray and hope that there was another way of doing it. So, can we go on please? Here you see Lord Arthur Alfred Milner, but I’m going to talk more about him at the next session. Now one of the characters, the next, the next slide please. One of the characters who was part of Milner’s Kindergarten and is later going to be important in the Cliveden crowd is John Buchan. And he’s probably most famous because he wrote “The Thirty-Nine Steps”, which has been made into so many, has been made so many times into movies. I think there are at least four versions of it. And he’s a great writer. Now he’s a fascinating character, and again, he’s complicated. And in order to illustrate how important the Jewish question is, I’m going to give you a little bit of a biography of him. Remember, he’s part of Milner’s Kindergarten and they’re going to come to London and they’re going to become involved with Nancy Astor and the Cliveden crowd. So he is a Scott, he’s a novelist, he’s a historian. He is a centre right, he belonged to the Unionist party, which was allied to the Tory party. And later on, those of you from Canada, he becomes the Governor General of Canada. He’s a man of the empire.

And after graduating from Oxford in 1901, he becomes Lord Milner’s, Lord Alfred Milner’s Private Secretary. And of course, Lord Milner at the time, I’ve already told you, he’s High Commissioner for South Africa and he’s Governor of Cape Colony. And he comes back to London. He then becomes the editor of “The Spectator,” which is really the in-house magazine of the Tory party. Do you see how interconnected they all are? Later on, of course, Boris Johnson became the editor of “The Specky.” Journalism is one of the roots into politics. He’s called to the bar, he becomes a barrister, but he doesn’t practise. And he marries Susan Grosvenor, who is the niece of the Duke of Westminster, one of the most important of the English aristocrats and also one of the greatest landowners in England. He’s a good writer. And in 1910, he wrote a book called “Prester John”, which is the first of his adventure novels set in South Africa. Remember, he was out there with Milner and he uses his experiences in South Africa to solve the incredible story of “Prester John.” And I remember reading it as a child, it was one of the great novels. It’s got a lot of problems today, in terms of attitudes of the time, but it’s a great, it’s an adventure story. And he went into politics, he becomes a member of parliament for the Scottish Borders. And in World War I, that brilliant talent was put to use writing propaganda for the British.

And during the war in 1915, he wrote his most famous novel, “The Thirty-Nine Steps,” where of course, Richard Hannay is his hero, and he becomes director of information in 1917. Post-war, he doesn’t just write novels, he writes history books. And later on, he’s going to become the Governor General of Canada. He wrote a very interesting autobiography, which you should read, “Memory Holds the Door.” In all, he wrote 30 novels, 70 other books, including a biography of Sir Walter Scott, a biography of Oliver Cromwell, a very talented man. Now about the Jews, he’s so complicated. He did condemn the persecution of German Jews. You’ve got to see these people against the backdrop to what’s going on in Europe. You’ve got to see these characters who’ve been in Africa, they had had to clear up after the World War. Later on, they’re going to be involved in something called the Round Table, which I’m going to talk about next week. And I know that when you cover South Africa, there’s going to be a lot of talk about that. They were imperialists, they believed in the empire at its height.

They had seen so many of the officer class die in the first World War. You know, far more officers died per capita than ordinary men. But it was such a terrible, terrible war. And then of course, you had the Treaty of Versailles and many of them felt that the catastrophe that became Germany was the result of the fact that Germany was hammered into the dust. And consequently, when Hitler came along, they were prepared to talk to him. And as far as he was concerned, he’s particularly controversial, because when Hitler comes to power, he does put his head above the parapet. He does condemn the persecution of German Jews, but he was also pro-Zionist. He was the chairman of the Westminster Parliamentary Palestine Committee. He had a good relationship with Chaim Weitzman, but he referred to Johannesburg as Jewburg. And also there is a passage in Thirty-Nine steps, where Richard Hannay is being talked to by Scudder. Scudder, of course is the spy, the wise one. And he says to him, and he’s took, remember, it’s written in the war, in 1915 when the enemy is Germany. And he says to him, “Capital has no conscience. And the Jew is behind it, and he hates Russia worse than hell.” Think about it, in the first World War, Britain was allied to Russia and France, Germany was the enemy. And of course, you have this high visibility profile of German Jews.

There are many Jews of German origin who’ve been part of Edward the Seventh’s set, you know, so where did Jews fit in? And then of course, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and what horrified all these imperialists was communism. So it’s all going to come together. But remember this is 1915, he goes on, “The Jew is everywhere. Take any big Teutonic concern. He is the man ruling the world right now. And he has his knife into the Tsar because his aunt was outraged and his father flogged in some one-horse location on the Volga.” Now his detractors like who went, because of course he’s Canadian and he was Governing General of Canada. He was decrying his fame and yet, those who supported him, they said, “Look, this was a character giving a viewpoint.” And another thing that has to be pointed out, the Nazi Black Book. A book was discovered which lists 2,000 leading Brits, including Jews and German Jews who were to be arrested the minute the Germans crossed the channel. Thank goodness it never happened. And he is one of them. And in the Nazi Black Book, he is singled out for projewish activity. And please don’t forget that many of the things I’m going to talk about, about Nancy Astor and her anti-Semitism, nevertheless, she’s also going to be in the Black Book.

So nothing is straightforward about this discussion today or next week. So can we go on please? Now this is Philip Kerr. He is another, he’s going to become one of her most close friends and he’s terribly important as part of the Cliveden crowd. And she met him and he had a profound influence on both her religious and her spiritual life. They meet because he is going to be suffering a huge spiritual crisis and he’s going to convert to Christian Science and she’s going to convert too. Now, I’m going to give you a biography of him because he’s terribly important in this particular story. He’s the 11th Marquess of Lothian. He was born in London and he’s going to be her closest friend. Remember, she was a bit of a prude. And he was probably gay, but he had no relationships as far as we know with men or women. And he was born in London into a military family. His father was Major General Lord Ralph Kerr, his mother, Lady Ann Fitzalan-Howard, the daughter of the Duke of Norfolk, where they are the premier Catholic family in Britain. He went to a private Catholic school, the Oratory School, and then to New College, Oxford. He was clever. He got a first in modern history. At Oxford, he was called narcissus because he was considered to be totally vain and totally wrapped up in himself. He was certainly very clever. He didn’t suffer fools. He was an intellectual.

He was also, he was mad about golf and he was a good sportsman. He also went to South Africa and he’s going to be become one of the most important members of Milner’s Kindergarten. And he helped with something called the Selborne Memorandum, calling for the four colonies of South Africa, which of course Transvaal, the Orange River State, Natal and the Cape Colony to be united, and granted dominion status. He also advocated reconciliation with moderate Africanas led by people like Jan Smuts and Botha. And what he wanted in South Africa was power sharing between the Brits and the Africanas. Now you’ve got to remember, if you are talking about modernity and ideas, none of these characters gave any thought whatsoever to other people. So when you are thinking about whether there should be any involvement of non-whites in government, do not even think about it. We’re talking about the period of imperialism, Milner’s group were real imperialists and they believed in a federation of empire, what they believed in. And this is going to be transferred, of course, into the Cliveden crowd. And he’s going to be absolutely at the centre of the Cliveden crowd. He’s also going to be involved in the creation of the Round Table movement, which I’ve already mentioned, along with other characters like John Buchan.

It comes out of, of course, Milner and this notion of imperialism. And he comes back to England in 1910 to edit their journal, was its first editor. They wanted the empire to become an Imperial Federation. They wanted the colonies to have equal status with the British, but they should be ruled by, of course, the whites. Unfortunately, in October, 1911, he had a nervous breakdown. He’s very wealthy. He goes off to India to recover, and he’s a Catholic, remember, He becomes totally disenchanted with Catholicism. He’s interested in the spirituality that he picked up in India. And gradually, ironically, the religion that suits him is Christian Science. He has a very contrary, complicated personality. Remember, he’s a Catholic, he’s a homosexual, he’s an imperialist, and he’s clever. And yet he wants to, he has a rational and an irrational side. And he wants to combine his belief in spirituality and mysticism with rationalism. And of course, he believed along with Christian Science, that physical illness was a manifestation of mental problems. So if you could overcome them, you could overcome your problems. And one of the problems with Christian Science, for other people, of course, they would not go for conventional medicine. And there’s been some fascinating court cases where people actually were Christian Scientists were forced to allow their children to have operations.

So it’s a very controversial doctrine, and he’s going to convert Nancy Astor to it. He’s her closest friend. They were never lovers, but they were very, very close and they shared a lot of ideas. And of course, he’s very important politically. He works for Lloyd George, he’s part of the Paris Peace Conference. But he believes passionately after seeing the First World War, the newly formed League of Nations should work for worldwide disarmament. Public order, he said, against the power of the sword. Already during the war, he’d called for a world state. And after the war, he becomes Lloyd George’s Gatekeeper. This is a position of great power. You see the point about the Cliveden Crowd, and next week I’m going to focus on Lord Halifax, they were absolutely at the centre of power. And Nancy Astor and her husband, Waldorf, were their hosts for all these incredible weekends. The Civil Service absolutely disliked him. They thought he was arrogant, they thought he was sanctimonious. And as Lloyd George got older, he really controlled who Lloyd George saw. And because of his religious principles, he believed he was always right. Lord Curzon, a very tough man, he referred to him as the second foreign office. He developed a pathological hatred for communism. He was actually at Versailles when, of course, there was communist revolution in Hungary. Now you’ve got to remember, and I often bring this point up, but to understand Jew hatred, you’ve got to take this on.

You’ve already got this from religion, this kind of mystical power of the Jew. You’ve got the idea, even though the majority of Jews are dirt poor living in Eastern Europe, in England, something like a quarter of the non landed millionaires were Jews. Although the bulk of Jew in England now is dirt poor, living in the East End or in the Gorbals or in Cheetham Hill in Manchester. But of course, the visible prominence of Jewish financiers, German Jewish financiers, British financiers at the edge of modernity, and then the Russian Revolution. Never forget the quote of my great hero, my brain isn’t working, he was shot in Riga in 1933. The great Simon Dubnow, who was shot aged 81, the great historian. He was shot by the Nazis. You know, that great quote of Walter Benjamin, “Any damn fool can put a bullet through the most beautiful brain.” He said, “The Trotskys and the like have done more damage to us than anything else,” because the notion was communism was a Jewish affair. Don’t forget that of the 11 who took power in Russia, five were born Jew, six were born Jews. Now the fact they throw it all away, the fact that Béla Kun who created revolution in Hungary, he’d thrown his Jewishness away. Those particularly in Germany, who created revolution, they threw their Jewishness away.

But to these characters, and you are back to the model I always try and unpack, what does it mean to be a Jew? So Philip Kerr sees, he is horrified, he’s absolutely horrified by communism. And this is going to be terribly, terribly important. Now at Versailles, he makes a very important connection. A young man who’s really rising in the American delegation, and that of course is Franklin Delano Roosevelt. And they’re going to become very close. In 1921, he leaves Lloyd George’s service to edit “The Daily Chronicle,” which is a very important liberal newspaper. He also becomes the secretary to The Rhodes Trust. And of course, if you think Cecil Rhodes and the controversy about him, we are going to be having a lecture on Cecil Rhodes in the South African series. But much of his mantra from then on, he’s part of the Cliveden Set, he’s very wealthy, he’s very well connected, he travels the world, he delivers lectures in America, “We must prevent war, there cannot be another war.” And gradually he begins to see, as many in the Cliveden Crowd do, they see Germany as a victim. And he said this, he went to Germany and he delivered a lecture in Hamburg. And he said this, “The wartime thesis that one nation is solely responsible for the war is untrue.” And he said, I’m quoting, “The Treaty of Versailles is immoral because it’s based on the lie that Germany started the war in 1914.” Now in March, 1930, he enters the House of Lords. He joins Ramsey MacDonald’s government.

By the way, he was also a driving force between the National Trust Act of 1937, which is about the conservation of Britain’s heritage, the great homes. And he’s absolutely at the centre of the Cliveden Crowd. Now I’m pulling lots of threads together for you and I hope that we would, it would all come together. And as part of the Cliveden Crowd, there’s going to be a lot of debate and conversation with people from Milner’s Kindergarten, Ribbentrop is going to become a visitor, but appeasement at this time is not necessarily the dirty word that it later becomes. I’m reiterating. He actually went to Germany in 1935 as General Secretary of the Rhodes Society and he meets Ribbentrop. Now, I’ll talk about Ribbentrop in a minute. And he also met Hitler. And ironically, he was impressed by Hitler. And this is what he said, “Germany does not want war and is prepared to renounce it completely, provided she is given real equality.” And of course, in 1930, remember by 1935, you’ve had the Nuremberg Laws and they’re widely reported in the press. Everybody knows that the Jews have been deprived of citizenship, that intermarriage is a crime, already the world has been alerted to it. But it’s the thirties, you’ve seen the Wall Street crash, fear of communism, fear of foreigners.

He was also against any demand to boycott the Berlin Olympics. Also, please don’t forget that in 1936, Hitler’s government staged the Olympics. And all the countries went. There was protest in Britain, mainly from the left, but it was muted. He writes a letter to Lord Allen, “Every time I see Ribbentrop, and every time I know anyone going to Nazi headquarters, I tell them,” and this is interesting, “That the present obstacle to better Anglo Jewish relations is the persecution of Christians, Jews and liberal pacifists.” He does say he warns the Germans that he has. And you see the Germans, as I think I’ve already illustrated in other lectures, the German high command, they loved the British aristocracy. And when I lecture on the next part of the Cliveden Set, I’m going to talk about Lord Halifax, who was a passionate fox hunter and who goes to Germany as a guest of Göring who loved hunting. You know, there was a lot of interrelationship between the German aristocracy, inverted commas, and the British aristocracy. So he’s constantly in Germany but he is aware of the fact that an obstacle, not just from Jews, but also from people who have sense of right, that what’s going on in Germany, but the way he puts it, Christian Jews and liberal pacifists. And remember he’s very anti-Catholic and he argues that Hitler has only acted as he has because of Versailles. This is a letter he wrote to “The Times” in 1936. And he writes, “I loath all dictatorships.” And he writes this. “Mussolini and the Pope are the worst.” Remember, how he was a Catholic? He hates the Pope now.

“Followed by Stalin.” And he says at this stage, “Hitler is a visionary rather than a gangster and the least evil of the lot.” And he says, “Germans are better people than Italians or Russians.” It’s fascinating if you look at the kind of letters that “The Times” published at this time and also the whole language. There’s a wonderful quote of Karl Popper that extraordinary Austrian Jew who was an internationalist who of course was one of the greatest thinkers, who had to flee because he was a Jew, though he didn’t have any, he believed in internationalism. He went first to New Zealand and then comes to LSC. And he was the man who said, “The 20th centuries, in the end, is all going to be about the meaning of language.” And if you look at the kind of language that people of huge power would use and how that language itself would never be used today, he said, “Hitler is one of the most creative figures of his generation.” And even after the militarization of the Rhineland in 1936, he says, “Germany walked into its own back garden.” He was deeply resented by the foreign office. And on the 2nd of June, 1936, Ribbentrop is going to visit the as Astor’s home at Cliveden and Kerr and Nancy are going to work on a memo to improve Anglo German relations. In May, 1937, he again goes to Germany. He’s very close to Halifax who I’m going to talk about later next time. When Chamberlain goes to meet Hitler, and remember he comes back, and they sell Czechoslovakia down the river, and he comes back with that piece of paper when he says, “I bring you back peace, but peace with honour,” England’s sighed with relief. Have we averted war?

Tragically, that speech was first used by Disraeli when he came back from the Congress of Berlin where he had created peace with honour. And he said, Chamberlain has done quote unquote, “a noble and heroic deeded. He’s done a marvellous job.” Now, however, he finally reads “Mein Kampf” in late 1938, he becomes very disillusioned. And after, when Hitler violates the Munich Agreement with the invasion of Czechoslovakia in March, 1939, he changes his mind and he says, “It seems clear that Hitler is a fanatical gangster.” And in April, 1939, he actually gave a speech in the House of Lords in favour of peacetime conscription to try and stop Hitler. So this is a man who goes along with Hitler. He even puts up with his anti-Semitism, although he does try and tell the Nazis to ease it off. But on the other hand, he went to Germany and he was up to his neck in all sorts of relations with German organisations. And what happens though, when war breaks out, because of his close relationship with Roosevelt, he actually is sent off to America and he holds that post until he’s death. When Churchill takes over, they quarrel a lot. But in the end he does manage to negotiate Lend-Lease.

So a very, very, very complicated character. But meanwhile, let’s go back to Nancy. In fact, as I said, what’s important about Nancy, and remember I’m having to bring all her crowd together, so I hope you can bring the thread. She’s absolutely at the centre. She’s the hostess of these weekend parties. She is married to one of the richest men in the world. They have this amazing stately home and Kerr is her closest friend. And now she becomes the first elect woman MP to take her seat. And in fact, it begins with 10 women are now elected in the interwar period. She was not that effective politically, but she does support the development of nursery schools. She was very much against alcoholism and because of her huge wealth and her contacts, it does give her some standing. Her bill raised the legal age of consuming alcohol from 14 to 18. And on one level she did, she was not a suffragette, but she did fight for women’s rights in a certain way. She fought for women to be in the civil service. She wanted reform in education. And she was actually very popular in America. So when she went to America, she spoke at lots, remember she is American. She’d spoken an awful lot of meetings. She actually chaired the first ever International Conference for Women in Science in 1925. It’s a conference for women in science, industry and commerce. She established incredible networks. She was very concerned against juvenile victims of sexual offences against young people. She screamed about these things in the House. You see how complicated it is. She is against the dangers of alcohol, she’s against the dangers of men who prey on young women.

She feels strongly that women should have more of a role in the world. And yet, she is not part of the suffragette movement. She’s immensely privileged. And how on earth do we deal with a character like her? Now, let me go on, next slide please. Cynthia Curzon, who marries, who later on, her first husband is Oswald Mosley. Her only husband is Oswald Mosley, the daughter of Lord Curzon, a member of the government, and later Viceroy of India, she helps Lady Astor on the hustings. So you have these young aristocrats who are fighting on one level for women, but they come from an incredible position of privilege. And Cynthia Curzon, she is going to die young. And those of you who were there when I gave the presentation on the Mitfords, of course Cynthia Curzon she’s going to die of peritonitis, whilst her husband, Oswald Mosley, who is also an aristocrat and a brilliant star of British parliament, is going to finally lead the British Union of Fascists. A terrible womaniser. And while she’s still alive, he meets the love of his life. One of the Mitford girls, Lady Diana Guinness who divorces Guinness and she marries him. And of course Guinness, if you like the byways of history, are you all with me still? Bryan Guinness is the son of Lord Moyne, who later is in charge of the Middle East and is going to be assassinated by the Lehi in 1944 because they believe that he is responsible for closing the doors of Palestine. So do you see how the Jews keep on popping up into these stories? Now, can we have the next slide please? This is Constance Markievicz.

Now she’s interesting because she in fact was the first woman to be elected, but she is Irish and she refuses to take her seat because they don’t recognise the British parliament. And as I said, Nancy Astor today is quite controversial. Because, yes, she was praised by Theresa May, she was praised by women for her fight for women’s rights, for her fight against, you know, sexual slavery of young women, for her fight against alcoholism, for her fight about women taking their place in the world. But she had some very, very dodgy, she had some very, very dodgy friends. And perhaps the most dodgy of all was the next character. Can we? Now, and that is going to be Von Ribbentrop who is going to be up to his neck in the Anglo German-Fellowship. Now I’m going to stop there. Can we make a, because time is short and I need to give it much more time, Hannah, can you make a note of where I’ve got to? So I’m going to continue with Ribbentrop. Oh, actually I can give you two or three minutes I suppose, because he’s, alright, let’s get through Ribbentrop. He was born in Prussia, had a very, very dislocated, unhappy childhood. Wendy’s always very interested in what makes these monsters. He was fluent in both English and French. He was very well travelled, a hero in the World War, won the Iron Cross. He later became, so he was stationed in Istanbul as a staff officer where he creates a friendship with von Papen, which is going to be very useful to him in Germany.

He marries very well. He marries a girl called Annelies, who was the daughter of a very wealthy wine producer. They’re going to have five children and he becomes a wine salesman. He’s adopted by his aunt Gertrude Von Ribbentrop, so he can add the Ribbentrop, he is a snob. He is boastful and he is in many ways, he is going to be a man always on the make. He becomes interested in Hitler, who he meets in 1928. He is introduced to Hitler as a businessman with very good international contacts. He’s got lots of languages, he’s quite charming in many ways, and he and his wife joined the Nazi party in 1932. And he begins his political career by becoming, he lends their castle to von Papen and Hitler. In 1932, von Papen is already, he is basically in charge of Germany, under Hindenberg is the president, he’s the chancellor. But everything is falling apart. The Nazi party are emerging as one of the strongest parties in the Reichstag, can a deal be done? And behind the scenes, Ribbentrop, who seems to Hitler to be very sophisticated, allows them to use his place for a meeting. He was totally unpopular with Hitler’s old guard, all the Nazi elite hated him. This is Lawrence Reese quoting Goebbels, this is what Goebbels said. Lawrence Reese said, “He is the Nazi all the others hated,” quoting Goebbels, “he brought his name, he married his money and swindled his way into office. Even in Weimar, he didn’t seem to show any anti-Semitic tendencies.” But he was Hitler’s favourite foreign policy advisor because he always toadied up to Hitler who admired the von.

He’s sophisticated. He thinks this guy is something. His only wish, according to Lawrence Reese, was to please Hitler. He was, and this is what Robert Wistrich says of him. “He was arrogant, vain, touchy and humourless.” And this is the Italian foreign minister Gian Ciano says, “Le Duche says you only to have to look at his head to see that he has a small brain. But he was responsible in 1936 for negotiating the Anglo-German Naval agreement. And in 1936, he becomes the ambassador to London. Now in London, he meets up of course with characters like Kerr. He comes to Cliveden, they all want the same thing. He also becomes very close to Wallace Simpson. Now later on, his role is going to become much more sinister. But it’s important to know that he visits Cliveden and he’s there with Kerr and they work on this kind of . In 1938 of course, he is recalled because he becomes the Foreign Minister and it is he who negotiates in August, 1939, that treaty that stuns everybody. The Ribbentrop Molotov Pact when the two enemies, Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany do a deal. And that of course opens the way for war. Basically, the deal is the division of Eastern Europe. The Nazis will go in from the west and the Russians from the East and they swallow it all up.

After the invasion of, but then of course Hitler breaks the pact, as everybody knew he would. And in June, 1941, he invades Russia. And then you have the real tragedy, the final solution, to use that terrible euphemistic phrase and Ribbentrop is up to his neck in it. He actually gave the order, "Speed up as much as possible the evacuation of Jews from Europe,” always using this terrible euphemistic language. He pressurised both the Italian, Bulgarian, Hungarian and Danish governments to deport the Jews as soon as possible. He was actually arrested in June, 1945. He was put on trial at Nuremberg and he was the first of the Nazis to actually be hanged. He was found guilty of war crimes and that new category, crimes against humanity. And it’s fascinating that two Polish Jews, Hersch Lauterpacht and Raphael Lemkin are working on these kind of crimes, the definitions. And they lost their families but he did get his just deserves. He’s the first to be hanged. But interesting to note, that he goes to Cliveden. So we’ve got a very complicated story. So I’m going to stop there. And Hannah, if you don’t mind keeping that place, let’s have a look at the questions.

Well, before I go on to questions, can I just say I’m coming back at seven o'clock. Lockdown University is an extraordinary organisation. About three weeks ago, I had a lovely notification from one of our students. It was sent first to Lockdown and they sent it on to me, and it was a lady called Lady Milena Grenfell-Baines. And she suggested a very interesting idea. And I looked at it, I thought this is a good idea and for a lecturer. Then I looked at her name and I realised I knew it from somewhere. So I looked it up. At seven o'clock, I decided, because we are coming up to Yonsaf and we need a hero ‘cause this is the time of reflection. So because of films coming out about him, and because I knew him, I thought we’d talk about Nicholas Winton. And I suddenly realised that Lady Milena had been one of his children. So I immediately contacted her and said, “I love your idea, but please will you come in and talk?” and bless her age 94, I will be interviewing, I’ll be talking a little bit about his life, but then I’m turning over to her because I thought in a way we need, we don’t just need the dark side of the world, we need to look at a man because we’ve all got character faults, we’ve all got the good in us and we’ve got in the bad. But let’s look a little bit, because Yonsaf is coming up to the light, so I hope you’ll be able to join.

Q&A and Comments:

And I’m just, I’ve looked at some of it. A lot of people are saying how much they love Lockdown.

So, oh, this is Jennifer Shanatova. “Years ago I spent my university semester living at Cliveden.” Wow, Jennifer. And lots of lovely messages, and loving the website. Cliveden, yes, I must say Cliveden.

Q: “So Waldorf doesn’t marry Nancy for her money. Where does the Aston money come from?”

A: Her father, his father, the American was one of the huge magnates of America and huge amount of money.

And Ron Bernstein, “Of course it’s the fur trade. John Jacob Aston made a fortune trading in furs, music and instruments, opium and real estate. His progeny built upon that. Also investing in various industries including railways and hotels. Think the Waldo Astoria and Waldorf Astoria hotels.” Ron, you’ll be pleased to know that we’ll be bringing in American historians to look at some of these incredible characters. You know, they’re the robber Barons of America. I’m also going to be talking about the Kennedy’s 'cause these are the robber barons.

Rosalyn Springer, “The Daily Telegraph was owned by a family named Lawson, previous name Levy, members of West London Synagogue.” Yes, of course. And Lawson became the chancellor under Maggie Thatcher.

“There’s a suburb of Cape Town” says Betty, “called Milnerton.” Of course after Milner. “There is some anti-Semitism in his work.” Yes, of course. “The Observer was owned by the Jewish beer family before Lord Northwood.” Yes, of course.

And Ron’s telling us more. “In addition to Cliveden and before St. James Square, William Waldorf acquired the childhood home of Ann Boleyn, Hever Castle in Kent, including the vast lands. He restored and lavishly extended the property, worth visiting your area. He also built two Temple Place on the London embankment and used it for his office, still in use for art exhibitions and other events.” I must wonder, I must ask Patrick about this, Ron, and of course Patrick is a friend of yours as well. I mean this is, you know, isn’t it fascinating how everything interlinks.

The name is Orange Free State. Thank you.

Q: “Can you tell us more of the German Black Book, which non-Jews made the list?”

A: David, that is a huge question and I’m think I’m going to find a historian who’s an expert on it because it’s a fascinating book. Yeah, it’s 2,000, 2,000 names of prominent people. There are, it includes Jews, but it’s also the, I think, I think dear old Churchill of course was top of the list. And it’s also the whole notion of bringing Edward The Eight back and giving him the crown.

Linda, “My married name is Milner, my husband family had family in Cape Town a few years ago. My husband and I stayed coincidentally in Milnerton.”

Paula Triskin, “After Chamberlain’s death, Churchill gave a tribute in which he said, Chamberlain’s disappointed hopes for peace were amongst the noble and benevolent instincts of the human heart. This reflects your observation that appeasement was a result of the horrors of World War I and the great fear of another war.” Yes. You see, we have the hindsight of history. We know what Hitler led to. And I think there was such such fear of another war, Paula. And yes, there were terrible things happening in Germany to Jews. And yes, you could read about it in the press, but don’t forget, in the first World War there were terrible stories of German atrocities. And many of them proved not to be true. And the world was such a dangerous place in the twenties and early thirties after the Wall Street crash that I think people, not everybody who believed in in appeasement was an anti-Semite, it’s always more complicated than that. The tragedy of the Jew is that they always seem to be at the sharp edge of all of this.

Q: David asks, “Is there any parallels between the anti-communist feelings of the 1930s and the anti-woke fears of today?”

A: That is a very, very important question, David, that I do not want a glib answered to. I want to put it into my, I want to think. This is wrong.

“Brooke Astor is another interesting woman. She married briefly to Vincent Astor and became a New York social dioen. Her incredible 20th century saga was told in "Mrs. Astor’s Regrets; Hidden Betrayals of A Family Beyond Reproach,” written by Meryl Gordon. She died in 2007 at age 109.“ Ron, I think you better come in and give a lecture. Will you get in touch with me please with your details?

Shelly, "When Ribbentrop was in England, he was vying with Princess Stephanie Hohenlohe for Hitler’s favour and influenced British aristocracy. Stephanie had four Jewish grandparents.” Yes, I’m going to talk about her in my next presentation. She is fascinating. Yes, she was Jewish by blood, if we can say that. No, not by blood. She was Jewish by parentage. Yeah. And she had an affair with Beaverbrook. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Lots of people wishing us long down. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

And from Eva. Thank you, Eva, so much. Eva, of course gave a fascinating talk herself the other, a few, few months ago. And Eva was actually born. Remember Eva, if you haven’t, if you haven’t heard her story, the website is available. Eva was born on the last day of the war in Mauthausen. It’s a miracle. And she came and told her story. So as I said to you, Lockdown it’s been life enriching for me, and for Wendy and for all of us. So, what I love is, I think it’s the first time that I’ve ever been able to talk to an international audience who themselves have such amount of knowledge.

So I wish you all a good Yonsaf If I hope I’ll see some of you at seven o'clock. Hannah, thank you again so much. And God bless everyone. Bye.