Trudy Gold
The Holocaust on Film, Part 2
Trudy Gold - The Holocaust on Film, Part 2
- Good evening, everyone, from London. I’ve just had a note on saying how sad to see Patrick go. I should mention, I did last week, that we are starting a new course on the Middle East, and we are going to go back to Rome and Palestine, and Patrick just felt that this was not his subject, so he hasn’t gone. He is not going to be teaching for the next couple of months because it’s a subject that it’s not part of his repertoire. So of course we all wish him well, and we will see him back again when we change to another topic. Anyway, to continue with this rather difficult and painful subject, and I’ve carved out another session, so I’ll be doing my final session on seven o'clock on Tuesday. Now, I want to address a few remarks before we go on. I said last week that the real watershed was the television film, “The Holocaust.‘ It was seen by 120 million people. It had a huge impact, and it really opened the doors to what some very cynical people call the Holocaust industry. More and more books, stories were using the Holocaust as a backdrop, more and more films. And one of the issues that I want to put in front of you, and I hope we’ll be able to discuss it more fully when we come to the questions at the end, as I’m sure you know, I was once part of IHRA, which was once the ITF. In the year 2000, because there’d been an outbreak of antisemitism in Sweden, Göran Persson, who was the Swedish Prime Minister, he decided the best way to combat it was a real programme of education in the schools. He contacted six other governments, the British, the Americans, the Israelis, the Germans, the French, and the Italians.
And the idea was that if the Holocaust was taught properly, then it would be a way to cure antisemitism. And I was actually present at the first conference of the new millennium, where 60 governments sent either their heads of state or foreign ministers, the Stockholm Declaration was issued, and the idea was that the teaching of the Holocaust throughout the killing fields, as it were, could lead to a certain amount of sensitivity, and it could lead to people addressing the whole issue of antisemitism and the Holocaust. And the name was later changed to the, as you know, from ITF to IHRA, and it’s the declaration that the majority of countries have signed. A lot of English institutions, British institutions, American institutions, universities, schools, et cetera, et cetera, they’ve signed. And one of the clauses is that by teaching the Holocaust, we are going to combat antisemitism and racism. And there’s a very, very strong piece in it when it talks about when is the criticism of Israel antisemitism and when is it criticism of the natural state? And it’s very clear. And one of the problems we’re experiencing at the moment, this is something I want you to think about as I’m talking about the Holocaust on film, is that unfortunately if you witnessed the demonstration in London yesterday where 100,000 people were marching for the Palestinian cause, and I want to say very, very carefully, this is not a political rant. I have great sympathy for the Palestinian people.
I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for Hamas. But the point is, what we are beginning to witness is, if you like, Israel being seen as a pariah state, where there is very little knowledge of the link between the Holocaust and Israel, when as next week I’m going to be interviewing Sa'ad Khaldi, who is ¾ Palestinian, ¼ Jewish. It was in fact his father who gave the keys of Jerusalem in 1967. He was a Palestinian leader. And I’m going to talk to him about many, many issues, and I hope you will join us, and it’s going to be next Sunday, and we’ll find it very interesting. And we had a pre-meeting. He’s a lovely man. And he said, "What we need to talk about is not just the 6 million European Jews who died, but also the 3 million who didn’t die,” because what happened to those who tried to go home, and how so many of them were murdered in the Holocaust. The 6 million murdered in the Holocaust, but so many of the others were murdered by fascists when they went back to their own countries. So basically there’s not enough correlation between the Shoah and the state of Israel itself. And then we are left with Jonathan Sacks’s very interesting comment. “First they hated our religion, then our race, and now our nation.” And I want to be careful because that does not mean you can never criticise the state of Israel. Of course you can. You can criticise the government of Israel, you can criticise the policies of Israel, but can you criticise Israel’s right to exist? And that’s a question that you have to answer. And I’m saying this to you before I really do begin a presentation on the films of the Shoah, because we’re going to see so many of them, and a couple of our group last week said that they much prefer the term “Shoah.”
So do I, but I use the term “Holocaust” because that is the term of common usage. Don’t forget that every year there’s a Holocaust Memorial Day in all the countries in which you live. But what is interesting, in England, in Britain, it’s now used as a meeting where we talk about every other calamity and every other catastrophe. And I said very carefully, and I was questioned on this, “I am not saying that what happened to the Jews was worse than what happened to anyone else. What I’m saying is it was different. And by bringing all these terrible catastrophes together, we learn nothing.” And in a way, I have to ask myself, is it part of what many people now call the dejudaized nation of the Holocaust? And does it fit in with the extraordinary words of Howard Jacobson, “They cannot forgive us the Holocaust.” Now, these are ideas I want you to consider, and I’m sure you’ll have many of your own, because this is an area that we really should be discussing. And the first film I want to bring to your attention is “Enemies, A Love Story.” And before we see the clip, I just want to tell you a little bit about it, because I think this is actually an incredibly good film. It was directed by Paul Mazursky, who was a very talented director. His grandparents were Jews from the Ukraine. No, can you go on? Don’t put it on yet, if you don’t mind. Just leave it for a minute. It stars Lena Olin, Ron Silver, and Angelica Houston, and it’s a fascinating film. It really attempts to portray the post-traumatic effect of the Shoah. He has adapted Isaac Bashevis Singer’s complex, brilliant book, and it evokes the lingering despair, and really the appalling trauma that survivors faced after the war. It’s almost incalculable the damage that was done, and also, tragically, the damage that has been done to the second generation, and it seems even the third generation.
So this particular film I found very moving, very special. It’s a work of huge bitterness and of heartbreak. It’s tough to watch, but it’s beautifully acted. It tells the story of a man called Herman Broder. He is the polygamous hero. He is a very good looking man. He drowns himself in love affairs. He’d actually spent the war years hiding in a hay loft. He was protected by the family of their Polish servant. Before the war they were very wealthy. She’s a pleasant woman called Yadwiga. It’s now 1949. We switch to America. We switch to New York, to Coney Island. He’s married to Yadwiga. He married her out of gratitude. She absolutely adores him. He tells her he’s a travelling book salesman to justify his frequent overnight absences. He spends the nights with his mistress, Masha, who’s a camp survivor, who has survived with her mother. She’s totally psychologically scarred, and he spends time with them. And what he actually does for a living, he’s a ghost writer for a rich, rather vulgar rabbi, played brilliantly by Alan King. But he needs both of these women. He needs Masha, because with Masha he can temporarily reject his torment. She knows where he’s been. But then his life is further fractured when his long-presumed dead wife Tamara, played brilliantly by Angelica Huston, rises from the ashes. And she says to him, “The truth is you are still hiding in the hay loft.” And the other subplot of the film is that it explores the impact of the Shoah on faith. It’s very subtle, it’s got very deep performances. And don’t forget that the last extract I showed you last week was “God on Trial,” which is that brilliant television film of a story that Elie Wiesel recounts that in Auschwitz, a group of prisoners put God on trial, and the end of the clip, they go off and worship him. Now, faith and the Shoah is of course an incredibly deep and dark subject. And many explanations have been given. We’ve already had lectures on it. So, but it is something that comes into “Enemies, A Love Story.” And can we please, if you don’t mind, see the extract, which is really, it’s actually the preview.
[Narrator] Paul Mazursky, the director of “An Unmarried Woman” and “Down and Out in Beverly Hills” now brings to the screen a story from Nobel Prize winning author Isaac Bashevis Singer. It is 1949. The nightmare of Nazi Germany is over, and Herman Broder has come to New York City to begin a new life.
This is America.
[Narrator] Married to the woman who saved his life during the war.
Will we have a child?
How does it? We’ll have one.
[Narrator] But in love with another woman he can’t live without.
All year, you promise to take me.
I still promise.
And the last minute you change your mind.
What are you hitting me for?
I’ll go myself.
[Narrator] Until the woman they said was dead turns up in New York.
Wife has not died.
[Narrator] Very much alive.
Herman, once and for all, how many wives do you have?
I’m not dead.
She’s not dead.
I’m not alive and I’m not dead. The truth is I have no claim on him. He probably always loved you. I’m sure he slept with you before me.
I came to him a virgin.
Oh, congratulations. Men love virgins.
[Narrator] Tony Award winner Ron Silver is Herman.
I married again.
A third wife?
Call it crazy, that’s the truth.
Were you always like this or did the war do it?
[Narrator] In her American film debut, Margaret Sophie Stein is Yadwiga.
Herman, I’m pregnant.
It’s wonderful.
[Narrator] From “The Unbearable Lightness of Being,” Lena Olin is Masha.
Answer me.
I told you yes, yes, yes.
[Narrator] And Academy Award winner Angelica Huston is Tamara.
I once thought if somebody died my hair, they polished my fingernails, I’m dead.
Can’t live without Masha.
She’s not your lover, she’s your enemy.
[Narrator] Morgan Creek proudly presents a Paul Mazursky film, “Enemies, A Love Story.”
How do you manage it? Do you rush from one to the other?
I do the best I can. It’s not so easy.
As I said, I think this is a film that I would really, really recommend that you watch. It’s deep. It’s, of course, Bashevis Singer’s one of the greatest writers, but it’s done so sensitively. And also we are seeing far more television films. At this particular period, “Winds of War” comes out, the miniseries based on Herman Wouk’s incredibly interesting book. And then “War and Remembrance,” also another miniseries. “Inside the Third Reich,” another miniseries. “The Oppermanns,” the story of a German Jewish family, in fact based on Feuchtwanger book, another miniseries. So it’s coming, it’s coming, it’s coming. Now, the next film that I want to show you an extract from is “Music Box.” Now the point is I’ve had to make a lot of choices, because the floodgates have opened now. Now let me talk a bit about “Music Box” before I show you the extract. It’s a fascinating film. It’s directed by Costa-Gavras, brilliant director, and it’s written by Joe Eszterhas. Now I’m going to talk a bit about Eszterhas before I come onto the film, because he was a Hungarian-American. He grew up in Cleveland. He had an early career as an editor, and then a life as a journalist, then an editor. And then he went into the film industry. He co-wrote “Flashdance,” which was one of the highest grossing films of 1983. By 1990, he is the highest paid writer in Hollywood. He was paid 3 million to script “Love Hurts,” which was produced as “Basic Instinct.” I’m sure you’ve all seen that. He also did “Jagged Edge.” These are brilliant, hard-edged, rather disturbing thrillers. Watch them both. I watched them both over the weekend, actually. Now, he’d actually been born in Hungary to Roman Catholic parents, and he was born towards the end of the war. And he lived as a child in an Allied refugee camp in Austria. Now, he writes the script, and a few years later he learnt that his father, who was a count, had actually been part of the Arrow Cross.
As I’m sure you all know, the story of Hungarian Jewry is particularly painful. Why? Because the majority of Hungarian Jews were not attacked until April 1944. Remember, there was a minute silence in the House of Commons on December 17, 1942, as part of the Allied Declaration where nine Allied governments actually proclaimed what was going on in Europe. Why? Because of incredible people like Jan Karski. I talked about him when we talked about the film, “Shoah,” the Courier from Warsaw. So much evidence was coming through by April '44. People had escaped from Auschwitz. There were lots of knowledge in neutral countries. So there’s so much coming through, and yet Hungarian Jewry is not attacked, because what happens until '44? Horthy, Admiral Horthy was allied to Hitler. And even though Jews were persecuted, and even though non-Hungarian Jews were deported, we’re looking at relativity here. Nevertheless, the 900,000 Jews of Hungary had not yet been sent to their deaths. And it’s only in the spring of 1944 when Horthy had tried to get out of the alliance because he thought the Germans were going lose the war, that’s when Eichmann rolls into Budapest and 436,000 Hungarian Jews are murdered in a three-month process. What happens then is that Horthy, by July 1944, there’s a lot of protests, from the Pope, from Roosevelt, from King George V, et cetera, and he stops the deportations. And it’s at this stage that he is deposed and the Arrow Cross are put in power by the Germans. And the Arrow Cross were notorious anti-Semites.
And what is absolutely tragic and fascinating is that Eszterhas’s father was a count and a member of the Arrow Cross. He himself had organised book burnings. He had produced antisemitic literature, which according to his son, quote, unquote, “Like the Hungarian version of 'Mein Kampf.’” And after he realised this, this is after he’s made “Music Box,” he cuts his father out of his life completely. He later did express regret. In 2012 after his father’s death he said this. “When he was in an old age home, the nurses kept calling and saying, ‘He’s dying and he needs to see you.’ Not going,” he said, “was a great mistake. I’ve asked God to forgive me, but I don’t, I think, I will be forgiven.” Another point, he was very, very pro-Jewish. He had a feud with Mel Gibson. In 2011, Mel Gibson actually commissioned Eszterhas, remember, he’s the most highly paid screenwriter in Hollywood, to produce a film on Judah and the Maccabees. There was a lot of controversy, and Eszterhas withdrew.
He said, “Mel shared the mindset of Adolf Hitler.” In fact, the film was cancelled, according to Eszterhas, because of Mel Gibson’s violent antisemitism. He wrote a book, “Hollywood Animal,” which tells his story, and it’s a very… And also another book, “Heaven and Me,” which is about Mel Gibson. So I wanted to talk to you about him, because, you know, it’s weird, because art does mirror life. It’s the story of a lawyer, played by Jessica Lange, and what happens is that Nazi hunters in America tell her that actually accuse her father of being complicit in the Arrow Cross. And she loves her father. She’s divorced. She has her son who is adored by the grandfather, who adores the grandfather. The other side of the family, that her ex-husband’s family, they’re top lawyers, very conservative Americans. She works with them. But she decides to go to Hungary to find out the truth. And she discovers quite a lot about the murder of Hungarian Jewry. And remember how late it is. And the murders in Budapest in the main are perpetrated by the Arrow Cross. And in the end, she realises she’s hit, she fought against it, fought against, fought against it, and she finds out that her father is a member of the Arrow Cross. And this is a very interesting cut from the film. Can we see it, please?
- This is the father, and this is him as a boy. This is the evidence she finds when she’s in Budapest, and she decides to write the evidence and send it to the Nazi hunters and to the paper. She goes down to the Danube, and of course, Jews were shot into the Danube. She discovers this information when she goes to Budapest, and she now realises she must, well, in a way, betray her father. He’s very much part of the Ukrainian community in America. I beg your pardon, the Hungarian community in America. Okay. It’s another film that I really recommend. It had very mixed reviews, but Elie Wiesel said that he found it, I’m quoting, “Very moving. A welcome addition to the cinematic literature of the Holocaust.” And that was in “The New York Times.” It won the Golden Bear. And it’s very peculiar though, isn’t it, that Eszterhas had written the script 10 years before he discovered that his father, Count Istvan Eszterhas, had been part of the Arrow Cross. And in fact, he’d given his father a copy of the script before the film was made, not realising that this was his father’s story. Okay, now we come on to the next film, that, of course, really did change everything. It’s really, from the miniseries “The Holocaust” to “Schindler’s List.” So let me talk a bit about it first. Of course, it’s directed and produced by the extraordinary Spielberg, who is, in 1993, was the most famous film director in the world. Now, it was written by Steven Zaillian, and in the light of what happened in Hollywood quite recently, “Schindler’s List” won… it was nominated for 11 Oscars; it won 7.
And the speech that was given by Branko Lustig, who was one of the producers, in fact was very moving because of course he was a survivor of the Shoah. So isn’t it fascinating? That terrible speech, well, to me it was terrible, that speech that was made at the last Oscars, going back just over from 1993 to 2024, how the world has changed since. Because when “Schindler’s List” came out, it was felt that because it was Spielberg and it was seen by something like a quarter of the population of Britain, about a third of the population of Germany, it really, really made so many people aware of the Shoah. And I was actually involved in producing a study guide for England. I’m going to spend a little time with you on it, because when Spielberg made “Schindler’s List,” he didn’t just make a film. He gave all the money, and the film made an absolute fortune. It was shot for 22 million, and it earned 322 million worldwide. As I said, it won seven BAFTAs out of the 11 nomination. It won three Golden Globes. The American Film Institute listed it eighth of its 100 Best American Films Ever Made. And the point was, Spielberg gave all the money to Holocaust education. He set up the Shoah Foundation. Every survivor who wanted to be interviewed should be interviewed. And of course, this really opened it up. And the “Schindler’s List” went to every school, and with it went to different countries, had different study guides. And the idea was if the Shoah was taught properly, and that culminates, of course, in the creation of the ITF, IHRA, then we will make a huge difference to anti-racist education too, as well as the story of antisemitism in “Schindler’s List.” So at the time, it was greeted with huge favour, and a lot of educators, both Jewish and non-Jewish, believed that it would have a huge impact on Holocaust awareness worldwide.
Now, with the hindsight of history, you could argue that it’s not really a Jewish film at all. What’s the story of “Schindler’s List?” It’s based on a book written by an Australian called Thomas Keneally. It was called “Schindler’s Ark,” but they changed the name to “Schindler’s List” because they thought it would be more accessible. It’s really, the central character, brilliantly played by Liam Neeson, is a Gentile who risks much to save Jews. And also it concentrates on the demonic regime that slaughters the Jews unreservedly. The only really sculpted Jewish character is Ben Kingsley, who is the accountant who works for Schindler. And in a way, the Jews are a backdrop to the story. And I know it’s a strange thing to say, but it doesn’t. Whereas in “Enemies, A Love Story,” they get to the heart of it. In “Schindler’s List,” the hero is… Well, who was Schindler? He was a corrupt industrialist. He was a womaniser. He was a gambler. He was a swindler. He was a total hedonist. He was a war profiteer. He was in Krakow, and he blackmailed his way to a position in the Third Reich. And yet he is the man who saves 1,100 Jews. Because I’m sure you know the story. He is an industrialist who persuades the Germans to allow… He sets up a factory, and he protects the Jews who work in his factory. What motivated Schindler is a very interesting question. What motivates rescuers?
And, of course, at the end, and this is true, the Jews who he saved, they gave him a ring, and inscribed on was that statement from the Talmud, “Whoever saves a single life saves the world entire.” Later he lost the ring in a card game. But there are thousands of descendants of Schindler’s list. And not since the miniseries, “The Holocaust,” has there been anything like it. It’s number four of the top grossing films of all time. Now, Steven Spielberg himself, he grew up with the knowledge of the Shoah. He evidently learned to count using numbers which was tattooed on one of his relative’s arms. His relative was a survivor, and he learn to count looking at that tattoo. And also he experienced antisemitism as a boy at school. You can imagine the nerdy, clever Spielberg. And when he made the film, he made some very interesting decisions. It’s to be in black and white. There are no A-list stars. And he said it’s his first film to tell the truth. Even with his huge track record, he himself had to invest 22 million of his own money. He put up most of the seed money for “Schindler’s List.” He’d acquired the rights back in 1982, but he realised that he wasn’t yet emotionally or artistically ready. In fact, there was a time when Billy Wilder wanted to make the film himself. And of course, those of you who listened to me lecture on Billy Wilder, he lost most of his family in the Shoah. Billy Wilder, the Austrian refugee to Paris, and then to America. As he said, “I arrived in America with 100 words,” and he’s one of the greatest wordsmiths, not only a great director, but one of the greatest wordsmiths that Hollywood has ever known, I would suggest, along with Mankiewicz and Ben Hecht. These are to me the three greats. But he at one stage wanted to make it.
Polanski was suggested, because he himself had managed to escape. But more about him when we look at “The Pianist.” He told Leopold Page, who was the Schindler Jew who had persuaded Keneally to write the book, that he wasn’t yet ready. And in fact, Page is Pfefferberg. He made it his life’s mission to tell the story of Schindler, and it was he who persuaded Keneally to write it. But by the age of 45, he had discovered his Jewishness. Now, Stephen Zaillian is the screenwriter. He was an Armenian. Now, that’s another people who have a terrible, terrible story to tell. And, of course, the Armenian massacre, it’s a double tragedy because, yes, Jews are dealing with Holocaust denial, but the Armenian massacre has not been recognised as a genocide by many countries who want alliances with Turkey. So, and I remember when the first Holocaust Memorial Day was in Britain, the Armenians were actually outside protesting. And he, with great sensitivity, he won a BAFTA and an Oscar for his screenplay based on the book. He goes on to do things like the “Gangs of New York” and “The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo,” very popular, amazing films. He wrote “All the King’s Men” and “Clear and Present Danger,” a brilliant Harrison Ford film. But most of his films deal with the dark side of the moon.
Now, let’s have a look at an extract from “Schindler’s List.” And of course it’s the famous extract when Schindler is looking at the deportations of the Jews from Krakow, from the ghetto, and of course you’ll see the famous girl in the red coat. That is the splash of colour. He’s out horse riding with his girlfriend, and he looks down and he sees it. So can we see that clip, if you don’t mind?
Oh, please let’s go. Let’s go. Come on.
Okay. Okay. It’s a very, very painful extract to watch, and I think Liam Neeson brilliantly acted it, because remember, the man is a bit of a bum, if I may use that expression, yet there’s something in him. Quite often, there’s been quite a lot of work done on rescuers now. Often they have reckless personalities. They act on the spur of the moment. He didn’t. He made a decision. And Spielberg’s obviously trying to make us think it’s because of the little girl in the red dress. There was something in him that made him realise that what was going on was obscene. He’s the man who’s socialising with the Nazis, including Amon Göth, who is in charge of Plaszow, the camp just outside Krakow. And Krakow was a particularly strange place, because Frank, the governor of Poland, who was a lawyer, he was Hitler’s lawyer in the thirties, he’d actually put himself up in the Wawul Castle, the extraordinary Wawul Castle. And because they loved the town, the Jewish quarter was not destroyed. And what is peculiar, and when you go to Krakow today, you can still see in Kazimierz the original quarter. It was desecrated. The synagogues were desecrated. They were used for stabling horses, et cetera, et cetera. But one thing I do want to tell you, ‘cause I want to give you a little bit of notice of the resilience of human beings. There’s the Moses Isserles Synagogue in Krakow in Kazimierz. A group of members of the synagogue actually managed to hide the tomb. They actually covered it in earth. They risked their lives so that it couldn’t be desecrated by the Nazis.
And of course, the great Moses Isserles is a rabbi who so many people went to pray at his tomb when they wanted good things to happen to them, to cure infertility, et cetera, et cetera. So “Schindler’s List,” and Spielberg spent quite a lot of time in Krakow, and I think it was a very, very dark time for him and for many of the actors. And Ben Kingsley tells the story that he was in a bar and somebody made an antisemitic remark and he got into a fight over it. But as I said, it was really greeted by Hollywood. It was seen by an incredible amount of people. So that period from “Schindler’s List” onwards, right up until the establishment of the task force, when gradually countries began to create Holocaust Memorial Days, there was a great deal of positive thought. Now I’m going to give you a little bit of an extract from the study guide, because I think it’s important that you understand. So “Schindler’s List” went to every film, and this is a speech from the film spoken by Amon Göth, who by the way was executed by the Poles after the war. And this is a speech from the film. “Today is history. Today will be remembered. Years from now, the young will ask with wonder about this day. Today is history, and you are part of it.” He’s talking to his fellow Germans. “600 years ago when elsewhere they were footing the blame for the Black Death, Kazimierz the Great, so-called, told the Jews they could come to Krakow. They came. They trundled their belongings into the city. They settled. They took hold. They prospered in business, science, education, and arts.
They came here with nothing, and with nothing they flourished. For six centuries, there have been a Jewish Krakow. Think about that. By this evening, those six centuries are a rumour. They never happened. Today is history.” So the speech was created for the film, very cleverly created for the film, because as far as study guides are concerned, he didn’t say it, but in the film he does. And it was used by teachers. And then the first task, remember, the Shoah in England is taught to 13, 14-year-olds. What happened then is the students were all given a task. They had to look at four extracts. We’re trying to get them to understand antisemitism. This is the first extract. “Their synagogues should be set on fire, and whatever does not burn up should be covered or spread over with dirt so that no one would ever be able to see a stone. Their homes should be broken down and destroyed. Passports and travelling privileges should be absolutely forbidden the Jews. All their cash and valuables should be taken from them. To sum up, if this advice of mine does not suit you, then find a better one, that we may all be free of this insufferable devilish burden, the Jews.” That is Source A students are asked to look at.
This is Source B. “I must certainly regard the Jewish race as the born enemy of pure man and vulnerability in them, and I’m convinced that we Germans in particular will be destroyed by them.” Source C: “This worldwide Jewish conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development has been steadily growing.” Source D: “Should the Jew triumph over the people of this world, his crown will be the funeral wreath of mankind, and this planet will once again follow its orbit through ether without any human life on its service, as it did millions of years ago. And so I believe that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator. In standing guard against the Jew, I am defending the handwork of the Lord.” Now, the first extract, “Their synagogues should be set on fire…” is actually from Martin Luther. The second is from Wagner. The third is actually from the “Illustrated Sunday Herald,” after the reviewer had read the protocols of the elders of Zion. The fourth is from Adolf Hitler. And the study guide goes on to say, “The fact that nearly 400 years spanned the four quotations, yet all four of them seemed to be saying the same thing, should point out that antisemitism was nothing new when Hitler came to power. Yet until Hitler, there would be no attempt at the total extermination of the Jews.” And then the study guide quotes from Raul Hilberg, one of the first and great historians of the Shoah. “Since the fourth century after Christ, there have been three anti-Jewish policies: conversion, expulsion, and annihilation. The second appeared as an alternative to the first, and the third emerged as an alternative to the second.”
And it goes on to say, “Why should this hatred of the Jews should be in existence for so long? Since before the birth of Christ, Jews have been either admired or hated. Why should one religious group have been so selected for the brutal extermination which we glimpse in 'Schindler’s List’? For you to try and understand, and in order to understand the myths, you should try to find out about the following: the diaspora, the blood libel, treatment of Jews by the Spanish Inquisition, the settlement of Jews in Eastern Europe, and pogroms.” And then it goes on to say, “Find out all you can about the Nuremberg Laws, Kristallnacht, Jewish immigration from Germany.” And I can go on and on and on. This was a study guide that was put together by a company called Film Education. And I was very friendly with the chap who ran it, a non-Jew, but a very, very good educator. And he found that he was being inundated with more information from schools, so he got in touch with me and said would I mind if our centre would help? And that’s what led us to creating the first of our study guides, and then we created another one with Robert Wistrich and Rex Bloomstein. But the point I’m making, this film really opened the floodgates. The question now for educators is how is it that all of a sudden this antisemitism has become such a virulent disease throughout Europe, and I’m going to suggest America, in the West, that we really have to take a break and consider what we do next. And in fact, I’m going to stop there, because I have many more films to show you, which I will show you on Tuesday at seven o'clock. Because I do want time for discussion, because I think we are touching on such an important subject. And I know that last week a lot of you had a lot to stay, so let me have a look at the questions.
Q&A and Comments:
Q: Yes, and Louise is saying, “Can’t the art or music of the Middle East be a possibility for Patrick?”
A: He actually felt that he didn’t… Look, this is coming from him, not from us. And we have found someone who can lecture on Arab music. He has in the past lectured on the Palestine Orchestra. You can find his past lectures if you go to the website.
Q: “What year was ‘Enemies, A Love Story’ made?”
A: “Enemies, A Love Story,” that was made 1983.
And this is from Sandy: “Aviva Kempner is an American documentarian with Jewish themes. Her most recent is ‘A Tale of Two Siblings,’ the story of her mother and uncle surviving in Eastern Europe. I highly recommend it.” You see, one of the problems is that “Schindler’s List” isn’t really about the Jews, is it? It’s about a rescuer and it’s about the Nazis. The only really rounded Jewish character, as I mentioned before, is in fact the character played by Ben Kingsley, the accountant.
And this is Louise: “Lockdown University might be interested in Gad Granach’s book, ‘Heimat los!’ I don’t know if it’s translated into English. It’s an excellent book. Gad was our close friend in Jerusalem. His father was the actor Alexander Granach. Both son and father survived the war.” No, I don’t know it, actually, Louise. It’s interesting. You see, we’ve had to make a lot of choices.
Marilyn says, “I believe no one knows how she or he will react in a situation. I think Oskar Schindler highlights this.” Yes, and it’s only if you are tested that you really do know. One of the presentations I’m giving to you next week actually, a week after next, I’m looking at Bar Kokhba and Ben Zakai, and how two Jews reacted at the time of Rome. And unless you are in a situation, you don’t know. We hope, I suppose, that we would’ve acted honourably. But who knows? Who knows?
Stewart says, “In my view, one of the most touching scenes in ‘Schindler’s List’ is the end, when Schindler’s children one by one placed stones on his grave in the Christian cemetery in Jerusalem.” You see that’s very interesting. You know, after the war, some of the survivors found him and looked after him. He was always in trouble financially. They kept him. Yes, there are some people who love the ending. Other people found it mawkish. It’s fascinating, people’s taste, isn’t it?
Shelly’s saying, “We’re listening to this talk on Easter, the major reason for our persecution and death.” Yes, I’m afraid, Shelly, this is the problem. I often highlight to you that you do not find antisemitism in the world of Hindu India or in the world of China. China pragmatically might not be a friend of Israel at the moment, but they have no problem with Jews. Believe me. I taught there for many years. You can’t teach about religion. They find that rude. And they hate missionaries. But you can teach about Jewish history and culture. On the contrary, they find us fascinating. It’s the world of monotheism, and don’t forget it’s that tragic verse in Matthew’s gospel when Pontius Pilate wipes his hands, and the crowds scream, “May his death be upon us and upon our children.” Hyam Maccoby and Robert Wistrich go as far as to say that is the warrant for genocide. You see, the gospels were written under Roman rule, and nobody’s going to blame the Romans. It’s obvious that if Jesus existed, he was executed by the Romans, because crucifixion is the Roman method of execution. But they’re not going to blame the Romans, ‘cause they’re living under Roman rule, so they blame the Jews. And because the majority of Jews never took on their views. You can make the case that the religion was not created by Jesus of Nazareth, Yeshua of Nazareth, it was created by Paul. What he does, he concentrates. He says, “Jesus is divine.” He comes from the century of mystery cult religions in Tarsus. You have the resurrected god in Tarsus, you have the resurrected god in Egypt. No Jew could accept a human being as a resurrected god.
Yes, we revere Moses, we revere the patriarchs, we revere the prophets, but they are not God. “I’m the Lord thy God that brought thee out the land of Egypt. Thou shall have no other gods before me, besides me.” Think about it. So Christianity is a problem for Jews. And what Paul does is he concentrates on faith, not deeds. He says, “What matters is you believe in Jesus, that he is Messiah.” Messiah in Christian terms is divinity. In Jewish terms, it means a great leader. So consequently the whole… And even when Rome falls in the West, Christianity goes on the march. And the pagans who are converted, what do they know of the Jews? What they know is that these evil creatures are the God-murderers. So that’s the problem. That is the problem. So I think Easter, you know, historically Easter was always a terrible time for the Jews. They were locked up in ghettos. You know, don’t come out on Easter. And it’s this negative stereotype that is transmitted from generation to generations. Then you have the European Enlightenment, and everybody thought, “It’s over. The Jews can be part of society.” And you have the wonderful success story and the terrible reaction to it.
Elaine is saying, “I think music and art are what is needed to lift our dark times.” We will be reintroducing it as much as we possibly can as we go through history, yes. Wendy wants to start a course on contemporary art, and I think we’re going to. I’m discussing it with her tomorrow. So no, we are not going to be neglecting that side of it. It’s just that Patrick, he’s given lectures in the past on the Palestine Orchestra and certain aspects of the Middle East, but he just felt that he didn’t have anything else that he could contribute to this course. You know, lecturers, we have to go with their strong points. We’ll be bringing in a whole new raft of interesting lecturers. I hope you realise that with Mark Malcomson, Dale, because we were concentrating on America, I was bringing in people with different forms of expertise. And as we go forward, I mean, there are subjects I can lecture on, subjects I can’t lecture on. I find people who can… We come up with a syllabus, we work in collaboration, we come up with a syllabus, and then we create the mosaic.
Q: “I’m in Israel. Where can we watch these films? Which channels?”
A: Now, have a look at YouTube and have a look at Prime. I don’t know if anyone can help us on this, Louise. I’m not very good technologically.
This is Jean. Oh yes, Jean. “You mentioned antisemitism in Europe and America. Australia’s having a terrible surge, and it’s starting in the East.” Now, of course, I should have mentioned, in the old world, it’s the old world of Christianity, Canada, Australia. South Africa, of course, is a double problem. Now China, it’s complicated in China. I wouldn’t say it’s antisemitism in China. It’s a real politique in China. I’ve worked there. Believe me, they don’t hate Jews for any theological reason. If it’s in their interest, if they think it’s their interest not to side with Israel, they would… China always acts in the interests of China.
Q: “Don’t you think that Shoah education is singing to the choir? Jews are trying to explain themself and no one is listening. All that education, so-called, where did it go?”
A: Myrna, that is exactly my horrific story, because, don’t forget, “Schindler’s List” went to every school in Britain, and in America, I believe. Holocaust studies is on the core curriculum. But something has gone terribly wrong. I agree with you. I was part of it for 40 years. Mea culpa. We got it wrong. It did not make enough of an indent into antisemitism. I think one of the problems is it’s ripped out of Jewish history. That’s my feeling. And when you rip something out of Jewish history, you’ve got a terrible problem. And also '45 to '48 is totally neglected, so I think how it can be rectified, I don’t know. I’d love to see the British government having the courage to put Jewish history on the core curriculum. You could do it as part of a process known as Living with Difference. Look at the various immigrant groups that make up British society. And I think the Jews could be one of them. I actually have a syllabus under my bed, but who knows?
This is Hindi Hert. “Aviva Kempner’s beautiful mother Helen became a recognised artist in the USA, and her uncle David was a great philanthropist. Great contributors in their adult life.” Yeah, I mean, so many of the survivors went on to have the most extraordinary lives. “I wonder if the tenor of Jewish education could be less on tragedies and more on the positive contribution Jews have made over the centuries till now.” Well, yes, that’s certainly something that we do on Lockdown. And in fact, I know that when we look at the Jews of the Arab world, we’re going to have quite a few lectures from Lady Hilary Pomeroy on the Jews of Spain, and that would include, of course, so much of the music and the soul of the Jews of Spain. Yes, of course. And one of the problems, and Myrna, don’t forget, we have a very, in the modern world, in the world of the Enlightenment, we had a huge impact on the world, and that didn’t really help. Yes, we can talk about all the great Jewish success story. That is not actually indenting antisemitism, unfortunately. I mean, you can actually, if you want, you could make the case. Look, Jewish contribution to modernity, communism, psychiatry, the bomb.
Q: Was Christianity a Jewish contribution to civilization?
A: Well, if Jesus was born a Jew, Paul was evidently born a Jew. It’s complicated. For 14 million people, we’ve made much too much noise. Maybe that’s our problem.
And Denise is saying, “I saw several of these films except for 'Enemies, A Love Story.’ ‘Music Box’ was a wonderful movie, and of course ‘Schindler’s List.’ I was most moved by those three, so it’s good to hear you emphasise the importance.”
This is from Charles. “The unending hatred of Jews is beyond belief. Looking forward to tomorrow. I’m a Gentile, but not a Christian.” Look, we’ve got to be careful. I really think even in these dark times when many of us are feeling very, very threatened, so many people are horrified by the upswing of antisemitism. All you have to do is think about people like wonderful William Tyler. Helen Fry is going to be giving lectures the week after next. No, next week now, or week after next, the week after next on antisemitism in the gospels. And she is not a Jew. She is a Gentile scholar who feels very, very strongly about it. And that’s just friends of mine. And I know there are so many people who are horrified, but the mob is ugly, and the mob is often ugly. There’s a wonderful book by an Elias Canetti, a Holocaust survivor, called “Crowds and Power.”
Q: “Jesus was a Jew, so why would the world become so antisemitic?”
A: Galicia, please do not use logic in hatred, because it doesn’t ever work. Yes, there’s a wonderful poem by Israel Zangwill, where Jesus and Moses meet in heaven, and they both look at each other with dark, dark eyes, sad eyes. Of course, even by just reading the first three gospels, Matthew, Mark, and Luke, the synoptics, Jesus came for the Jews. He was a… Look, a Jew would say that he was a Wonder Rabbi. A benign Jew would say he was a Wonder Rabbi who came to… Others say he was a Pharisee. Hyam Maccoby believed he was a zealot. We have no real evidence. The problem with the story of Christianity is where is the evidence? But you could say that about Judaism. It’s about belief.
Ron Bornstein: “Marchers on the Strand in London were shouting, ‘Sieg Heil.’ Police just watch. In Germany, we’re prosecuted. What kind of insanity is this? I haven’t seen this reported in the media. Surely it’s an important part of the story.” Oh yes, of course it is, Ron. In fact, my daughter was in London yesterday. She’s a journalist. I’m going to tell her immediately when I see her tonight. Yes, yes, yes.
This is from Charles Thatcher. “Jesus was not my Messiah. Easter or not, the Jews are fundamentally ethical and wonderful people.” Thank you very, very much for that, Charles. I think many Jews are feeling very lonely at the moment. People are again saying it that it’s sad that Patrick is… Patrick will be back, but he’s coming back when we’ve finished our sessions on the Middle East. What can I tell you?
Marilyn: “The South African community is fortunate in the South African Board of Deputies. He’s very active in meeting with the government and in the media.”
Helen said, “So troubled by the ‘God on Trial’ film, especially re: today’s issues.” Yes, of course. It does. Yes, Helen, it’s a very powerful film. You really should watch it. But it brings up the whole issue of faith. And Anthony Sher is such was such a brilliant actor, such a brilliant actor. In our next session, which will be Tuesday at seven, I’m going to show you, I’m going to talk about “Primo,” the film he made based on the life of Primo Levi. It was based on a performance he gave at the National Film Theatre. Absolutely brilliant.
This is from Julian. “I think the problem is ignorance and the desire to be ignorant, emotional, and reactive instead of informed and open-minded. A GB news reporter went to the pro-Palestinian protest just to ask them their views and simple questions. Most of them were not Muslims, didn’t even know what happened on October 7. Others became violent in attitude for just being asked what their views were. If someone had invaded or challenged something sacred just by being asked. This unquestioning attitude and group thinks reminds me of Hitler’s statement, ‘We want to be barbarians.’” Yeah. You know, one of Hitler’s most fascinating comments is, “I can never forgive the Jews for inventing moral conscience.” Now, of course, they didn’t. Hitler wanted to go to a pre-Christian world. Hitler wanted a world where the Ten Commandments were reversed. These are the words of Hugo Gryn. “I want a world where you can kill, you can steal, you can covet, you can commit adultery, you can do whatever you want.” And that’s the world according to Hugo Gryn, very interesting theologian, that Hitler’s, that Nazism reversed the Ten Commandments. If the Ten Commandments are the commandments for life, of Judaism and Christianity and Islam, then reverse them.
This is from Julian. “Another example being the more recent border force officers in Manchester who told two Israeli Jews to say how they survived on October 7. We want to be sure you don’t do what you do in Gaza.” Yes, but let’s be careful. The British government is not supporting these views. We mustn’t… There’s a wonderful quote of Isaiah Berlin’s, and I keep on hanging onto it. He said, “Of course all Jews are paranoid, but with our history, we have a right to be.” We mustn’t catastrophize either, because that’s not going to help us. We’ve got to somehow hope that our friends will speak for us as well. And I think many of them now are. I’m not as hopeless as I was a few weeks ago. And I know it’s very, very difficult times, so let me wish you all well. And it’s ironic, isn’t it, that I’m actually teaching this on Easter? And we’re not having anything on tomorrow because it is a public holiday, it is Easter. But we meet again on Tuesday where we start this new series. And in the first week, because we thought this was very interesting for you, I have some very, very renowned scholars looking at the whole nature of history, what is truth and what isn’t, including the brilliant Ian Morris who wrote “Why the West Rules- For Now.” So I think you’re going to have a few treats over the next week, and be sure there will be art, there will be music, there will be culture. Things will go on. And please all take care. Thank you.