Dr Hilary Pomeroy
Food and Sephardi Identity: Aubergines, Cardamom and a Drizzle of Honey

Dr Hilary Pomeroy | Food and Sephardi Identity: Aubergines, Cardamom and a Drizzle of Honey

- Well, I’m continuing the Sephardi strand, which I began by looking at Spain after the Muslim conquest. So that’s was 711 onwards. And looking at the very distinct Arab and Syrian and Middle Eastern influence on Sephardi jewellery, first of all, based in Spain. And then after Spain, I moved into the Ottoman Empire with particular emphasis on the largest community in the Ottoman Empire, that’s the one of Salonica. And so from there today we are continuing with food and how food is very much part of our essence, of our Jewish essence, and defines our identity. Food is a reminder of one’s past, of one’s family, one’s community, and our cultural roots and religion. So it’s very much more than nutrition and calorific values. It’s a link with the past, with past family, sometimes the family we knew, near families, such as parents and grandparents, or very distant parents of family and ancestors whom we didn’t know and it can’t perhaps identify. So food preserves and retains cultural identity. It’s part of our national and religious identity. Food habits one indicate one’s religion, even when the religion wasn’t necessarily practised. As with the Marrano Jews of Portugal and Spain. As the anthropologist, Pat Caplan has written, “Food is never just food, and its significance can never be purely nutritional. Furthermore, it is intimately bound up with social relations, including those of power, of exclusion and inclusion.” So here we are in North Africa, precisely in Tangiers with, as you can see, a rather affluent family sitting, having their afternoon tea. This habit of drinking tea, and probably with several guests, because there are more glasses set out on the tray than there are members of the family. And this is all part of the Sephardi tradition. The idea of commensality, sharing food, and even more than that, as the Sephardim of you will probably know, there’s a lot of conviviality, so joyfulness and happiness when sharing food.

So food is intimately bound up with social relations. What has happened though is that of late in the 20th century, and particularly from the mid-20th century, when Jews left the traditional homes in Arab countries and came further west into Europe, traditional food began to disappear. And in fact, traditional food, the traditional Sabbath dishes would hardly be cooked nowadays, although there are stories of these new settlers in Algeria, in France, in Turkey or Greece, searching the markets, as I’m sure you will understand, looking for this foods that with which they were familiar. Foodstuffs, of course, were a special, could be prepared only for the Sabbath. Some were reserved, I would say, for the Sabbath. There were culinary practises only for the holidays. Certain foods would only be eaten then. And something I’d like to point out, which is often forgotten because we have here, as I say, an affluent family, there was, however, a lot of poverty amongst the Sephardim. We have to remember that when they were expelled, when the Spanish Jews were expelled in 1492, they were given three, four months notice to leave the country had to sell their homes, get out of the country, find transport to get to North Africa or to the Ottoman Empire, so they arrived very often, penniless, and had to start new lives, which they did with great resilience, energy, and vitality. So for example, if we look at the Jews of Greece, the Sephardi Jews soon replace the autochthonous, original Romaniote Jews, the Greek speaking Jews.

And an example of this is to be found, of this mobility, is to be found in Claudia Roden’s orange cake, which I imagine many of you have tried to make always successfully, I am sure, and which is absolutely delicious, but the origin of this story, of this cake, which was given to Claudia by her aunt Regine Galanti. Regine’s family was originally a Marrano family from Portugal. From Portugal after the advent of the Inquisition and the terrible travels of the 16th century, like so many hundreds of Portuguese Jews, Regine Galanti’s family made their way to Livorno, and from Livorno to Aleppo. So really this recipe and this cake has travelled from Portugal to Syria. And yet it’s more than a coincidence because when the Arabs first arrived in Spain in 711, they actually came, or rather the leaders, came from Syria. So this is just a collage, a cameo, of the way in which the Muslims influence Sephardi culture. There is music, the way the religion was practised, architecture, the foods, and I’m looking here now at a water wheel. The water wheel was the most important invention brought by the Assyrians and the Arabs into North Africa and into Spain. And its importance was vital because then there was irrigation. And with irrigation you could have a healthy population, which could feed off the locally grown foods. This is the Noria, the water will in Hama in Syria.

And this is the one in Cordoba, which is still standing today. Now, what were the foodstuffs that the Syrians, the Arabs, brought into North Africa and also into Spain? Well, during their travels through the Mediterranean countries, they brought in wonderful crops and spices. Here we see the plants, crocus or saffron and the stigmas, the stamens of the saffron, which was an extremely costly, in fact, the most expensive spice, but so abundantly used in Spanish cookery or Sephardi cookery, unless it’s replaced by the much cheaper turmeric. Now the Arab cooking brought with it food such as rice, which was not known in Spain, nor were oranges, sweet oranges, nor were artichokes, capers, almonds, caraway, basil. And they introduced techniques such as distilling. And also you’ll find in Spain, the date palm, which again was introduced. Here is the the palm array in Elche in southern Spain. It’s actually a UNESCO cultural heritage site. And the reason that dates are so important in the diets of North Africa, Spain, and throughout the Middle East, is that they, dates themselves, first of all can grow, the palms can grow in poor soil and don’t need actually a great deal of irrigation. And they are also extremely nutritious. So that Maimonides suggested that date honey should be eaten. He particularly was referring to the Jews working in the tanneries where they were up to their knees in harmful chemicals and inhaling the chemicals. And he suggested dates as an antidote. Now, another crop actually that you do find, however, that was native to Spain were olives and grapes. And they were of great importance to the Jewish community because they had religious significance.

The olives produced oil for lighting the lamps and lighting the lights for Shabbat and the festivals. And the grapes produced wine, which is so prevalent in religious ceremonies, eruv, Shabbat, and also in other ceremonies such as weddings, breaking the glass, sipping a glass of wine together. So there is always some sort of added religious significance. Surprisingly, perhaps, is that wheat, or there is a crop that you probably associate with Italy, which was known in Spain from the 12th century onwards because he was introduced by the Arabs, and that is durum wheat, which is a form of hard wheat. Now, the importance of hard wheat in the diet of a Sephardim is that it’s not soft, it doesn’t rot, it can be preserved naturally and it’s light to carry on their journeys. So Jewish traders brought back spices and foodstuffs. They brought back pasta. And then after the conquest of the new world in the 16th century, new foodstuffs were introduced. For example, potatoes, tomatoes and chocolates, and Marranos were very much, particularly in Venezuela, involved in the chocolate trade. And I’m sure you’re aware of the very many chocolate cakes and desserts that that you find in Sephardi cooking. Wherever they were, a Sephardim, whether they moved from Spain to North Africa or throughout the Ottoman Empire in the Middle East, they absorbed ideas from local cuisine.

Now, they did keep kosher, but the ideas were exchanged in the hammam, where for example, the Jewish women would normally go on a Shabbat, Friday afternoon before Shabbat. What are the characteristics of Sephardi cookery? Well, very much the idea of commensality. That is to say, sharing, sharing food. And as the word implies. With the table, sharing a table, sharing a meal with others. It’s a fundamental part, actually, of Sephardi tradition, Sephardi way of living, and the importance of hospitality and inviting people to one’s home. So that one’s guest would normally be given the greatest portion of food. So cooking together, which strengthened family to the ties, women, of course, working in the home, sharing the food, sharing the preparation. An important feature of Sephardi cookery, which has continued ‘til today, was that unlike Arabs, or I’m sorry, unlike Muslims, who cooked in sheep’s fat, there was a cat, cow, the fat-tailed sheep, which produced sort of oil for cooking. And unlike Christians who use butter and could use it for cooking meat, Jews would only use olive oil. So there’s a great deal of mention of the use of oil for the cookery, for cooking, and also for ritual preparation of meals. Another feature of Sephardi food is very often, meat was cooked with meat. With fruit. And recipes were handed down orally. There were cookbooks. Cookbooks were known quite early on, certainly by the 12th century in Spain, but recipes tended to be handed down orally. And among mediaeval Muslims, Jews already had a reputation for their fine cooking.

And in Morocco, even 'til today, Jewish cook cuisine is considered very fine. Not surprising, with the copious use of herbs and spices and also the great attention to appearance and how the food looked. So prolific use of spices and herbs. And then also new cooking techniques were introduced into Spain and into Europe, actually, because from the 14th, 15th century onwards, as Sephardi Jews travelled further into Europe, new techniques were introduced, especially frying. By the way, the reason that there’s so much frying in Sephardi cuisine is that, first of all, pre-expulsion time, there were no ovens and of course no electricity. They would fry on the hub over a fire, the equivalent of a fire. Now, the sort of food or meat that was available was basically lamb. And the lamb that was known was particularly hard, difficult to chew, difficult to work with, which is why so many Sephardi recipes consists of chopped meat, minced meat, minced lamb. So that makes. Oh, here we have more. You can see various different varieties of dates. Now with the dispersal of Sephardi Jews from Spain into the Sephardi diaspora and moving their cooking techniques about around, we find that there are new methods, whereas in Algeria or North Africa, Morocco, to prepare couscous. This was a very labour intensive technique, which involves steaming the grains, rolling them, rubbing them by hand.

From the mid 1950s, as I suggested, modern techniques of preservation and cooking were introduced so that the couscous dishes, which I imagine many of you are familiar with and prepare, became more popular. But from 1391 onwards, that is when the problems arise in Spain for Jews. From 1391, there were a number of pogroms in Spain. And the country, for the 14th during and the 15th century, it was known that Jews would be known either as sorry, new Christians. So the Spanish population was made up of original Spanish families, the old Christians, Jews and Jews who converted, who were known as new Christians. And during the course of the 15th century, as antisemitism increased and with the eventually edict of expulsion in 1492, and prior to that, the establishment of in 1478 of the Inquisition, there was a lot of searching out of heresy. Now heresy, the Inquisition was not aimed at Jews, it was aimed at heretics. In other words, Jews who had converted to Christianity but were heretical in that they kept on their Jewish traditions, very much those cookery dishes that they had always known, and which I have suggested is the link with our past. And in the late 15th, early 16th century, various edicts were published in Spain, which let people know how to identify Judaizers by their cooking techniques. So they would ask, “Was food cooked prepared on a Friday for Sabbath? So were there special dishes for the Sabbath?

Was the food eaten cold or at room temperature on the Sabbath? What type of fat was used in the cooking?” Because olive oil, which meant Jews could keep their ideas kashrut, has a strong smell when heated, did they consume scaleless fish, shellfish or forbidden foods, such as pork? During Passover, did they eat bitter herbs? Did they observe lent, or did they eat meat and dairy products, which during lent were forbidden to Muslims? And did they, it’s interesting to know that in the 15th century, the funereal, the mourning rituals of Sephardi Jews throughout the Sephardi Empire in Turkey, in Greece and in North Africa, these were observed already in Spain. In other words, by sitting at low tables and eating eggs. So did they eat hard boiled eggs after a funeral and sit at low tables? And it’s usual for many of the trials of the Inquisition were brought about because the servants recognised the cooking techniques of their mistress. Now, I mentioned though that wherever they went Sephardi women absorbed, not only new foodstuffs, but new dishes and new techniques, and there really was more mixing between the religions than one would imagine. This is a painting from the late 19th century. It’s Morocco, in Morocco, and it’s a Jewish wedding, but as you can see, it’s attended by Muslims. So the musicians themselves are all Muslim. At the back we have Jewish men, and here we have a row of the local Moroccan Jewish women wearing their beautiful gowns that were originally wedding dresses. And then what would be worn for all types of festivities. And of course, because one has to have enjoyment and food, there would be water and wine, and then no doubt, pastries. But the normal way for women would be not to be dressed in those beautiful, elaborate gowns. But this is the every everyday clothing of Moroccan women.

And here you see a mother and daughter who’ve been to fetch water from a well and water would be stored in clay pots in North Africa, in the Ottoman Empire. Often there would be water cellars, walking around the town selling the water. Now, one of the most distinctive foods, and I’ve rather leapt on because I haven’t got a slide of this, a distinctive food of Sephardi and Jewish cuisine is the aubergine. The aubergine is available throughout the year. It absorbs other flavours is great in various dishes. And it became known as a favourite dish of the Jews. There is actually a description from the 15th century of a wedding between a Jewish man, a former Jew, who has become converted to Christianity, so he is now a new Christian, and a Jewish woman. And the poem describes how at the Jewish wedding, no rabbit was eaten, nor was fish without scales. So in other words, the husband had managed to impose for the wedding his dietary requirements, but they ate many eggplants and charred with saffron. Interestingly enough, in the 18th century, a particular song was composed. It was the song of the aubergine. And it’s a song known as a coupler. A coupler was a type of very serious song. It usually dealt only with religion or was of didactic nature, so it taught you how to behave. But this one frivolous song about aubergine. And there are 36 verses of four lines. It’s not terribly long. And the first 35 verses, in each of them, talks about one particular woman.

So the cook is identified, usually named, we don’t know if they were real people, but it’s very likely, sometimes the nickname is given, and there is a summary of how that person prepared the aubergine dish. So there are so many ways, it says, to cook aubergine. The first one was the way that the late Morena prepared aubergine. She cooked them and filled them, and then that was how her di shviger, the all important mother-in-law had taught her. In the second verse, it’s even a more enjoyable method of cooking aubergine, it says, and this was the way that the shamash, the shamash from the shul, his wife prepared the aubergine. She hollowed them out and filled them up and gave them the name of dolmas, term still used in Turkey today, it’s just stuffed vegetables. And the third one, I’m not going through 35 verses, joya prepared it, she cooked the aubergine, she removed the stem, the tail, filled them up with lots of cheese and oil, and she gave this dish, the name almogrote. Now, almogrote is a name still prepared by Sephardi Jews in Turkey today. It features in Claudia Roden’s book of cookery. And by the way, Claudia’s almogrote is delicious. So we see how the aubergine remains popular. But the last verse I particularly enjoyed, because the last verse, verse 36, says, when you’ve heard all these verses, you must have next to it some radishes and a good salad. So this lets us know how, what the normal diet of Sephardi Jews, of dried beans with pimienta and lots of parsley. “And between each two mouthfuls, you’ll drink your wine, both the rich and the poor.” So rich and poor are invited to drink wine with this dish. Now, despite the profusion of aubergine, that linking of Jews with the aubergine, persisted into Italy as well.

And it was looked down on, and in Pellegrino, Artusi’s book, “Science in the Kitchen and the Art of Eating Well,” he wrote, “40 years ago, one could hardly see aubergine and fennels in Florentine markets, because they were considered vile food of the Jews, who have a better flare for good things than Christians.” And I’d like to move on now to considered in greater detail what Jewish past wives had to look out for in the market. Well, when I say market, Jewish women didn’t go to the market, it would be the husband who normally shopped for food. So rather a good habit that I think. The men in Muslim society would go to the market to buy food, to buy wine, and to buy the material for clothing, but in preparing food, and the women would give list, would tell the husband what to look for. They would obviously look for variety where possible, but above all, they would want to adhere to the laws of kashrut and also to their budget. And I mentioned that many of the Jews were impoverished on their arrival. And most Jews had quite menial jobs in North Africa and in the Ottoman Empire. So this is reflected in the type of food that they ate. For example, very little meat was eaten, and they would even eat very cheap cuts. The sort of meat that we wouldn’t find or the butchers don’t sell, nowadays. They would eat offal, giblets, trout, sweet bread, cows’ udders. And the udders would boiled so that the fat came off and could be used for cooking.

They even cooked the larynx and the trachea, the spinal cord, which was quite a delicatessen, apparently, dipped in flour and egg and reheated in beef stock, chicken crests and chicken feet. And the chicken, neck of the chicken would be stuffed. Chicken were kept in, were an easier, less expensive type of meat than anything from cows because chicken was expensive because they required grain, actually. So anything, chicken dishes were reserved or chicken soup, was reserved either for pregnant women or for the sick. It was very much a luxury for food, eaten occasionally on the Sabbath or sometimes on the eve of Yom Kippur. Kashrut, of course, as you’ll be familiar with, it was expensive because of the taxes imposed, not just on meat, but also on wine and on cheeses. And there are often mentions in community books and minutes of the community councils of the uprising at community meetings where there would be protests about the high costs of kosher food. So how did these poor housewives manage? How did they eke out the food? Well, if it was meat, as I’ve suggested, it would be chopped, minced, pounded. But if it was made into meatballs, it would be cooked with vegetable purees. Remember the Sephardim loved vegetables and ate huge amounts of different vegetables. So there would be vegetable purees, such as aubergine, celery, spinach, potato, carrots and leaves. Sometimes the meatballs would be dipped into flour. And the meat, remember there’s no margarine, no sunflower oil, would often be cooked in the juice from, as it appeared, from previous meat dish and that was used to reheat other dishes. But mainly, in poor households, the families subsisted on what is really a very healthy Mediterranean diet.

They ate legumes, beans, chickpeas, rice was served in richer families, cracked wheat, and spinach, again, was one of the very popular vegetables, very much associated with the Jews. And they had, I mentioned, the drizzle of honey, in the title of this talk, a very sweet tooth. This was the influence that came out of the Middle East via Syria into Spain and back into the Middle East. And those of you who know North Africa, and Morocco in particular, will recognise these wonderful cornes de gazelle, which are filled with pureed almonds, ground almonds, and a huge amount of honey. And another very common Sephardi dish, these are burekas, Turkish dish, actually, made with pastry and very popular throughout the Middle East, but not made usually amongst Sephardi with meat, because of the cost, normally filled with spinach or cheese or a mixture of the two. Now continuing with this idea of the economy, nothing was thrown away. Every part of a vegetable would be used. So if we’re talking about spinach, the stalks would be cooked separately, the leaves would be used to wrap around other foods, courgettes skins would be filled with fillings, stale bread was reused, pumpkin and melon seeds were dried and grilled and fried. And even the cheapest fruit, and in the market, bruised or rotting fruit would be used with the addition of sugar, so that it could be preserved as jams. So many techniques of Sephardi cooking are to do with preserving food, using salt, drying sugar.

The burekas or bread, actually, would normally be taken to a communal oven. And what about the fish? If there was fish, it would be the cheapest fish available, Anchovies, say. And what about wine? Well, wine that would now be often made at home for economy. Here we have some examples of further Sephardi dishes. These are, actually, they’re not albondigas, they’re not meatballs. These are patties made out leaks or perhaps possibly leaks added to a mixture, a thin mixture of mince meat. And these were very popular during Pesach. And here we have, once again, a family entertaining and waiting their guests. But here, as you can see, you can see how these are, most Jews were not affluenced, these men in the market do not give the appearance of affluence. And they’re buying the fruit and vegetables, so you can just about make out some vegetables here or fruit. But really, the most festive type of cooking would be reserved for Shabbat, which was of course greeted with great joy. And so that if there was a special fruit available on the market, if someone saw a particularly appealing example of fine, ripe pear, people would save that one fruit for the Sabbath. Here we have a Moroccan bride. And at weddings, that’s when you got the most glorious type of abundant rich cuisine. You can see the elaborate dress worn by a Moroccan bride.

And if you just look at her skirt, there are 18 concentric circles of gold thread. And the 18, you see is keeping to this tradition of 18, signifying life, and through it, good luck. More examples of Jewish brides. And now let’s think of birth ceremonies. It was during birth, that a woman who had given birth was at her most vulnerable, and normally she would not be left alone for several weeks and would always be accompanied, there would be friends bringing in friends and family, bringing in food. But there are stories that are not always happening. There’s a song that tells of, after the birth of a child, of a boy, that the father goes off to shore and the wife stays at, the woman who’s given birth, is at home, and whilst the husband has eaten wonderful foods, the wife and the women have only eaten thin sardines and they’re so hungry that they all quarrel amongst themselves. Now here we have a tradition that is peculiar, or particular, to Jews in the Ottoman Empire. It’s the preparation during the mother’s pregnancy, that’s about the fifth month, they began to prepare the child’s, the baby’s trousseau, if you like, and you can see the woman on the right, scattering, sugared almonds onto the cloth, which will be used to make swaddling cloth in which the baby is bound. And even the first nappies and diapers. So white’s signifying purity. And in fact, very often during marriage ceremonies or in times of the wedding, certainly black coffee wouldn’t be served and only white sweets.

If we move back to morning times, which was a time of congregation, and again, special meals, this is the cemetery in Fes, of Sol. Well one of the tombs is to Sol, you know, there were Moroccan saints and Jewish saints in Morocco. And of course pilgrimages. There we see pilgrimages in probably the Atlas mountains or further down to the south. Although, pilgrimages that I’ve been on to Morocco, have always been attended by Jews from Northern Morocco, from Casablanca. And when Moroccan Jews went to visit the tombs of Moroccan saints in little villages, which had been abandoned in the 50s by the Jews leaving to go to France or to Israel, the gravestones and the saints, their tombs would be looked after by the local Muslims. And I have been astonished by the amount of food, the convoys of fridge freezers that are taken down south in preparation for such festivities. There is in fact a different attitude to food, to warning and to solemn days amongst Sephardi. So this is actually a picture taken outside a graveyard. And you see people are eating and drinking. And this is, I’ve gone blank, Tisha B'Av, which commonly referred to just as Tisha. And after Tisha, you can see a feast being held in a shul, so much enjoyment of foods. I don’t want you to think that Jews were just concerned with preparing foods. There was also great importance giving to wine. I’ve mentioned that wine was important for ritual purposes and distillation techniques were learned from the Muslims from very early times. In Muslim Spain, Jews owned vineyards, so they cultivated both olives and grapes for religious reasons and continue to do so in Christian Spain. So in fact, Jews of Spain were not exclusively an urban community. And of course wine was of great importance in religion and its production had to be handled, or should, be handled owned by Jews.

Now on various visits to Morocco, I’ve been asked by Moroccan Jews to bring back, this is an example of how food and identity are interlinked, I would be asked to bring back mahia. Mahia is the type of brandy that Jews produced. It was produced from figs and from dates, even pomegranates. Very potent And in the Ottoman Empire, in Turkey and in Salonica, the local Jewish drink would be raki, or arak, which is actually highly potent and very pungent. So spirits and wines were commonly produced despite the tax imposed by rabbis, which made it expensive. But you will be perhaps surprised to hear that in Salonica in the late 19th century, wine was manufactured not just in the home, but on a commercial scale by the chief rabbi. The chief rabbi, Meir Jacob Nahmias. And in fact, so the label on the bottles of wine say. So it’s brandy from Rabbi Nahmias’ distillery. And in the mid-19th century onwards, when we get industrialization in the Ottoman Empire, new factories, and Jewish families became very involved in manufacturing.

The main brewery was the Olympus Brewery, which was set up in the late 19th century by the Mizrahi and Fernandez-Diaz families, families that came originally from Livorno, probably via Portugal, and then came to the Ottoman Empire. So there we are. And I’d like to conclude in the 1990s. Do you remember the Balkan Wars? The wars in Yugoslavia, or the former Yugoslavia. And this is Sarajevo. And the social club, the Jewish social club was known as La Benevolencia, the good kindness. And what happened was that La Benevolencia stayed open throughout the siege of Sarajevo, serving hundreds of meals a week to every anyone who came in, Jews, Muslims, or even Christians. And in fact, the Jewish community, especially the chair, Jacob Vinci, were responsible for helping so many thousands of people out into freedom during those terrible wars. So just a reminder of how food is so welcome in times of distress, in times of ordeal, how it is shared, how it is communal, and how despite awful happenings, the Sephardim, they would continue normally to enjoy food and enjoy their times. So there we are, back we are at the beginning. Thank you. And if there are any questions, I’ll be happy to take them. Hi there.

• Hello. Do you want me to read you some of your questions?

• Yes, please.

Q&A and Comments:

• Okay, amazing. So first question is, well, it’s more like a statement than a question, from David, it says, “My mother from Portugal made a wonderful intense egg custard syrup dessert called yema and an even richer variant. Do you know anything about it? I think it may have originated with nuns.”

• Could you just repeat the ingredients?

• [Assistant] So a wonderfully intense egg custard slash syrup dessert sauce.

• Okay, this sounds to me as if it might be the pasteis de nata, the little custard tarts that are so typical of Lisbon. But of course Jewish women were wonderful pastry makers and made wonderful desserts with their very sweet tooth. And I would imagine that this was the home version of those pasteis de nata, which many of you will have to taste it, and which are delicious and extremely sweet. Right.

Q - [Assistant] Amazing, the next one is actually from an iPhone, it doesn’t say the name, but it just says, “Thank you, the history of food has been a lifelong interest.” So that’s a lovely comment for you. And then someone else said, Shelly says, “Did extended families live together or next to each other in a courtyard? That might explain the camaraderie of dining.”

A - Yes, it must be wonderful to prepare food together. But of course there were often tensions between different members of the family, often, or not necessarily often, but certainly fairly more than occasionally between mother-in-law and daughter-in-law because it was very usual after marriage, after a son’s marriage, for the son to remain living in the family home, which would be in a courtyard. And the daughter would move into the family and would have to get used to her mother-in-law and her mother-in-law’s cooking and cookery techniques. And very often in very cramped circumstances, with extra rooms built on or built into the courtyard, but not, I think, very comfortable. That was quite typical to live together as extended families. Next question please, or comment.

Q - Amazing. So the next one is from Yona, “Can you talk about the tradition of the public ovens?”

A - I’m not sure what’s meant by a tradition, but this was normal throughout North Africa to have communal ovens or communal bakeries. Food would normally be taken on a tray to the communal oven, perhaps with some means of identifying a particular bread or particular dish. And would be left there, particularly for Shabbat. But of course the Muslims also were taking their food as well. It’s only in the late 19th century, when electricity was introduced, certainly into the Ottoman Empire, that you begin to get ovens, and no longer is cooking on the surface, but you could put a food inside an oven. And sometimes even bread ovens would be put inside a main oven. So a different technique. I think possibly rather similar to an aga, in that it was constant heat. But normal, and you still get communal ovens in North Africa today. Thank you.

Q - [Assistant] Amazing, so Jeffrey says, “Hi, Hilary. Thank you for your talk. Have you come across,” I think it’s pronounced, “buca in Tunisian shuls in France, and nowadays again? Andalusia Jews from Tunisia dive into it. In Kiddush, it’s distilled aquavit of figs.”

A - Yes, no, I have to say, my background is Spanish studies, so I’m very particular about what I mean by Sephardi Jews, and these were the Jews of Sephardi origin. And Sephardi Jews didn’t, the Jews of Spain didn’t go to Algeria or Tunisia. I mean, obviously you would’ve had a few who escaped there. And we do know of some rabbis who made their way to Algeria, very distinguished rabbis. But I don’t know much about Tunisia, and certainly not about Tunisian food. But if it’s anything like Sephardi food in general, it would’ve been, I imagine, it’s very delicious, very fragrant and very colourful. Yes.

Q - [Assistant] Amazing, Marilyn says, “I was told that honey in land of milk and honey is in fact made from dates, not honey from bees. Is that correct?”

A - I don’t know how it is made in in Israel now, but I mentioned Maimonides, who spoke about date honey for to keep people’s health up. And yes, a form of honey. Is there anything else?

Q - [Assistant] Oh, sorry, we lost signal there. So I wasn’t sure if you’d finish. So there’s one more question, Shelly says, “As Muslims don’t drink, how come they were involved in making wine?”

A - Well, they weren’t necessarily involved in making wine. I mentioned that Jewish wine production, wine, all the stages, should be made by Jews themselves, but this wouldn’t always have been possible. And I mentioned the distillation techniques that came very early in the history of Sephardi Jews that came from Syria. And we have references in mediaeval cookbooks of Muslims making wine. There are even manuscript illustrations of wine parties where you definitely can see Muslims drinking wine. So it’s something of an anomaly, it’s not expected, but it does show that however fundamental you might be in your observance, there are always weaknesses or temptations. Thank you, is there anything else?

Q - [Assistant] Let me just see if there’s any ones that have just come in. “Did they make special bread for Shabbat?” says Janice.

A - Well, obviously they made hallah. In parts of Greece, there would just be one round hallah, they didn’t have the braided or two hallahs. What was the beginning of the question?

Q - [Assistant] Did they make special bread for Shabbat?

A - Yeah, just the normal hallah. Now, there’s a question about Claudia Roden’s orange cake. It’s in her book of Jewish cookery. It’s very definitely there because I spoke to Claudia this weekend just to check up, and it’s a wonderful recipe and it’s very useful for Pesach because there’s no flour, it’s made from ground almonds. Ah, I’ve just, sorry, excuse me, I’ve just got the visual version of David Blackburn’s question about the egg custard. And he said it was called yema. Now I think that’s a corruption of the Spanish word yerma, which is the yoke of the egg, which would’ve been used for the, yeah, for that, to make the custard.

• [Assistant] Amazing, I’m pretty sure that we have covered most of the questions. The others are just very lovely comments about how much they enjoyed your lecture. And then I think if you’ve got time for one more, Shelly says–

• Oh, could I just interrupt?

• Oh, go on.

• Wherever Mimi Marx is, because I see you’ve got the wedding dress, the wonderful wedding dress. And yes, of course, the wedding dresses were worn and the henna. I am very envious of you. Would I be able to see it or do you have a photograph that I could see? And also coming from Myrna, there is a statement saying, “I wasn’t aware Jews had saints.” Saints is the word that is commonly used. It does sound very odd. What it means is a holy person, a person who had a mystical following, a special aura around him or her, because there were Jewish saints in Morocco. And it was thought that by worshipping them, a business venture would be profitable or you could go and pray to become fertile. But you’ll find in the literature or in history books, they’re referred to as saints. But I prefer the Hebrew term tzadik or tzadiki. And there’s nothing very exciting about the origin of the name Pomeroy. It was Pomerance. Right, I think we’ve covered everything. And do try Claudia’s orange cake. It’s very well tried, as in fact any of Claudia’s recipes. And also that dish almogrote, the aubergine dish. Very tasty. And if you want to economise on your cooking, you can add vegetable purees to your meatballs. Thank you very much.