Professor David Peimer
Freedom Poets and Songsters: Bob Dylan
Professor David Peimer - Freedom Poets and Songsters
- So, hi everybody, and hope everybody is well. What I’m going to focus on today, because I know that others have been speaking about Exodus and Passover coming, so in discussion with Trudy and others to look at this idea of freedom. And of course, you know, a big word, many possible meanings and try not to be cliched with it. And originally, I was going to do more of the ones that I’m sure everybody knows so well, Bob Dylan and John Lennon and Bob Marley, et. cetera. But I thought actually just to vary it a little bit and give a slightly wider range and a slightly more nuanced approach to not only the really the absolutely iconic, huge names, the John Lennons and the others, but a couple of the others perhaps rather. And look at them in terms of this big word that we all know so much, you know, freedom, which is on the one hand, very concrete, but on the other hand, very nuanced, especially looking at it in an artistic way through songs and music. And I want to include a clip from one movie. And if there’s time, I’ll do another movie as well. So what we are really looking at today is how to express freedom artistically in songs, a little bit in films and how to capture something of a bit more of an ambiguity and a complexity in that very word, instead of the obvious goody, bady, right, wrong, which is fairly obvious stuff. I thought I wanted to start just with a couple of ideas before going into some of these song clips. And I thought to actually make it a bit more contemporary and a bit more interesting is to look at what Harari would say, because Harari has written quite a bit recently on obviously freedom, given the context of emerging and fair rampant nationalism and other fanaticisms of our times.
And the increasing threat to democracy and the idea of human rights and freedom and justice, et. cetera, which is obvious and in particular, how it’s happening obviously in democratic countries, not in dictatorships, which it’s to be expected. That’s where the threat is. And there’s a fascinating new book out on, well, quite a few on the threat to democracy from within, as Abraham Lincoln said, you know, that democracy will be destroyed from within. He was talking about America, but I think it can be extrapolated more broadly. So fascinating to read Harari in a very recent collection of essays. And his idea is that the biggest threat is artificial intelligence, the combination of biology and genetic engineering. And Stephen Hawking has written quite a bit about that and interesting interviews with him about it as well. There’s obviously the nuclear threat, which is obvious to everyone, but even more, and Harari argues, and it’s a debate, it’s a very clear debate. He argues that it’s biology plus genetic engineering, that’s the greatest threat to democracy. And artificial intelligence, the surveillance culture that we’re all living in more and more. And his argument is that’s more of a threat than the emerging nationalisms happening in various parts of Democratic world. I’m not sure I agree entirely, because I don’t think one can underestimate the tribalism of nationalism and the power and its endlessly alluring attraction over centuries, over thousands of years for human nature and human communities.
But interesting, his idea that we are becoming humans, who in his word, are hackable, where we can be hacked obviously by internet, and not only Google and so on, but what’s going on with algorithms and how algorithms are developing so fast and so almost in a completely virtually unregulated way, but even if it was regulated, how much can you read? And he argues that of course, there’s always been propaganda, but if propaganda was something powerful in the 20th century, sort of like a radio appealing to the masses, his argument is that the algorithm is more like a laser focused missile, which is beamed at the individual because the algorithm can put together our likes and dislikes, our desires, our hates, our loves. And the algorithm itself is starting to tell us what to feel and what to think. Now, that’s an extraordinary development in human technology and the effect that it could have. And of course, genetic engineering is a whole different thing. So it’s interestingly to Harari, we are animals who are eminently hackable. And that more than the threat of nationalism and even the nuclear threat is how governments and corporations can succeed in hacking, in his phrase, the human animal. And the easiest people to manipulate are those who believe in free will.
Now, that’s a very provocative statement of Harari’s, where he argues that the traditional liberal will say, “Uh, you can’t hack the human spirit. You can’t get an algorithm which is going to change human spirit that fundamentally because human spirit goes beyond genes and algorithms.” And he argues that it’s already happening, Harari, and that the enlightenment was something of a blip to use the contemporary phrase. And that of course the enlightenment was fundamentally a belief in human liberty, a belief in human freedom. And in that is implied the concept of free choice. Because if there is such a thing as freedom and such a thing as liberty, then there is such a thing as human individual free choice. Was that all in illusion 300 years of the enlightenment and going way back to the ancient Greeks, is it destiny or is it free choice? A fundamental choice in Greek philosophy, in ancient Greek philosophy, which is that the bedrock of western civilization and western philosophical thought. So liberal democracies have that very idea at their core that there is such a thing as free choice. And Harari argues that is an illusion. And that in fact, the liberal democracy is set up to free choice. But with the algorithms and artificial intelligent and all these things that are emerging more and more beyond even the word surveillance culture comes the idea of a manipulated free choice. And he argues that ironically, the people who are most susceptible to being manipulated are people who believe in the enlightenment ideal of humans, have a free choice. It’s not all destiny, it’s not all fate, or it’s not all predetermined. These are fundamental philosophical positions which we all know only to well. I think what it does give rise to is a very interesting, very contemporary approach to understanding this very complex word, freedom.
I just wanted to share that a little bit with everybody today because I think it shifts the perception on the status quo of understanding ideas of human freedom and human liberty, especially in relation to something like the enlightenment. The threat today, on the other hand, because there is a counter-argument to it, is that what the liberal democracies have given and the fight for the liberal democracies over the last few centuries is to put it in a nutshell, is a society which tolerates more criticism, more debate about itself, about its very own ideals of what it is to be a liberal democracy. So the irony is that liberal democracy sets up the idea that you can be free to challenge the status quo, critique and debate what it actually means, itself a liberal democracy. And that’s something worth fighting for. That’s something worth really, you know, leading the cavalry charge for. And Harari brings that in towards the end of one of his essays in a fascinating way, which I wanted to share because it’s obvious, again, in the dictatorships and other societies where that isn’t even, nevermind not allowed, it’s not tolerated.
Okay, so in that context, I want to come to this idea of moving away from artificial intelligence and genetics and bioengineering. I wanted to move to some of these songs and clips, which for me, capture a fundamental idea of suffering, of pain, of injustice, of loss on a micro level and a macro sociopolitical level, where the question of freedom arises. And it’s so obvious what’s going on in the world at the moment and what has been over the last century. And what Harari does remind us of, he says, “Hang on, before we jump to the end of the road, of the threat to the liberal democracies at the moment, there is the first World War, there is the second World War, there is the Holocaust, there is the Great Depression. There are economic crashes, there was communism, you know, so many of these other massive shifts in human history, in western history certainly over the last century. And somehow, the liberal democracies have emerged, nevertheless, have risen to those challenges.” And I think it’s important, that idea that we hold onto, which Harari does acknowledge towards the end of this collection of essays. So what is it for me? And I think what the artists have always tried to look at is the debate of destiny and free choice. Is free choice an illusion, isn’t it? How to capture it artistically. And I think what most artists have done, and most of these pieces do, is they look at the suffering or the injustice or the loss or trauma, whatever it is, and way of overcoming it.
So loss may be the origin, but freedom is the desire and that doesn’t go away. And I think that what links the artists in all these different ways, not only from today’s few clips, but in so many of the other things that we can look at with literature, poetry, music, and so on. Okay, having said that, I want to begin with a bit of a range. I’m going to show something pretty surprising at the beginning. This is the blues, Otis Redding, southern soul and rhythm and blues. If you ever wanted something absolutely classic, it’s Otis Redding.
SONG BEGINS
♪ I’m sitting in the morning sun ♪ ♪ And I’ll be sitting when the evening comes ♪ ♪ Watching the ships roll in ♪ ♪ And then I watch ‘em roll away again ♪ ♪ I’m sitting on the dock of the bay ♪ ♪ Watching the tide roll away ♪ ♪ Sitting on the dock of the bay ♪ ♪ Wasting time ♪ ♪ I left my home in Georgia ♪ ♪ Headed for the Frisco Bay ♪ ♪ 'Cause I’ve had nothing to live for ♪ ♪ It look like nothing is going to come my way ♪ ♪ So I’m just sitting on the dock of the bay ♪ ♪ Watching the tide roll away ♪ ♪ I’m sitting on the dock of the bay ♪ ♪ Wasting time ♪ ♪ Looks like nothing is going to change ♪ ♪ Everything still remains the same ♪ ♪ I can’t do what 10 people tell me to do ♪ ♪ So I guess I’ll remain the same ♪ ♪ Sitting here resting my bones ♪ ♪ This loneliness won’t leave me alone, so ♪ ♪ 2,000 miles, I roam ♪ ♪ Just to make this dock my home ♪ ♪ Now I’m just sitting at the dock of the bay ♪ ♪ Watching the tide roll away, ♪ ♪ Sitting on the dock of the bay ♪ ♪ Wasting time ♪ ♪ 2,000 miles I’ve been roamin’ ♪
SONG ENDS
- So it’s, for me, and the reason I wanted to start it is you’re talking about, you know, I left my home in Georgia, travelled, et cetera. But underneath the blues, the blues and southern soul and rhythm and blues in particular, it’s so obvious the connection to slavery. But not, I mean obviously, African-American slavery, but slavery throughout the centuries, throughout the thousands of years of human history. And something of a yearning, something of belonging and something of a hope, but inside hope and pain together that he captures it for me. And you get an echo of that ancient history, which is beyond, you know, goes further for me than African-American slavery, although that’s crucial and captures something which I think anyone can identify with. And that hope for freedom, you know, which is inside the music and inside the rhythm, the blues. And the blues, obviously, I mean, everybody knows about them. Don’t have to go in certain detail. What I want to mention here as well is that this comes from an amazing series, which really took off during lockdown called “Playing for Change,” where artists from all over the world were Zoomed in and then pieces were cut and edited together. You saw Jamaica, you saw Florida, you saw Venice, all different countries and the artists just being brought in all the time. And I think it’s a fantastic way of using the internet. And I’m giving a different argument to Harari here because it’s an amazing way for the internet to have such a global reach and influence so quickly. Artists from so many places, giving their time, playing one song and then somebody together, putting it all together and creating from a classic Otis Redding song this global sense of hope against loss and suffering in the song. Okay, the next one I want to play is, instead of Bob Dylan singing his own, I wanted to do Hendrix’s version. And for me, the lyrics are eternal.
SONG BEGINS
♪ There must be some kind of way out of here ♪ ♪ Said the joker to the thief ♪ ♪ There’s too much confusion ♪ ♪ I can’t get no relief ♪ ♪ Business men, they drink my wine ♪ ♪ Ploughmen dig my earth ♪ ♪ None will level on the line ♪ ♪ Nobody offered his word ♪ ♪ Hey, hey ♪ ♪ No reason to get excited ♪ ♪ The thief, he kindly spoke ♪ ♪ There are many here among us ♪ ♪ Who feel that life is but a joke ♪ ♪ But, uh, but you and I, we’ve been through that ♪ ♪ And this is not our fate ♪ ♪ So let us stop talkin’ falsely now ♪ ♪ The hour’s getting late, hey ♪ ♪ Hey ♪ ♪ All along the watchtower ♪ ♪ Princes kept the view ♪ ♪ While all the women came and went ♪ ♪ Barefoot servants, too ♪ ♪ Well, uh, outside in the cold distance ♪ ♪ A wildcat did growl ♪ ♪ Two riders were approaching ♪ ♪ And the wind began to howl, hey ♪ ♪ All along the watchtower ♪
SONG ENDS
- Okay, I am going to hold it there. I mean, for me, this is the greatest guitarist to ever live. I mean, extraordinary. If you look at those rifts and what he’s doing with that guitar, I mean, for me, it’s quite incredible. And obviously, there’s the wild hauling scream of rock, and rock obviously symbolising a certain sense of freedom, even if it is a middle class sense of freedom or a sort of unthreatening. But there is, it’s a cry, it’s a howl. Inside the music, not the voice so much, but inside the way he’s using that guitar is he doesn’t give a damn. It’s such an internal freedom. And for me, Dylan is that, you know, it is not he or she or them or it that you belong to. The whole emphasis of Dylan is on such individualism and individual liberty. And this particular version by Hendrix has had over 200 million viewings on YouTube. That’s extraordinary on the internet. This is nearly a 50 year old song and a 50 year old version of the song. 200 million people and so many people of different generations and ages and cultures all over the world. The power of song and music, the soft power, if you like, in political terms, I think is extraordinary. And I obviously believe in it because, you know, for me, culture. The phrase from Dylan, “There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke. But you and I, we’ve been through that and that is not our fate.
So let us not talk falsely now. The hour is getting late.” How easy cynicism is and how easy it is to be cynical, many here among us who feel that life is about a joke. It’s ridiculous, absurd, it’s a joke. Let’s be cynical, you know, do whatever. Who cares? Nobody else cares. But you and I, we’ve been through that. It’s not our fate. And I think for me, these lines Dylan capture so much. What are we going to do in the face of a cynicism about the idea of freedom, about the idea of liberty and the threat and so on? I’m not saying necessarily Dylan’s advocating storm the barricades, but become aware. Okay, then I want to go onto the next one, which I’m sure many will have seen the movie. The movie was “Darkest Hours,” which captures the 10 days in May, 1940 when you have three main characters, Churchill, Chamberlain and Halifax. Chamberlain, you’ll see in the speech of Churchill’s in Parliament, he’s sitting the head of the conservative party. And he’s got the little white handkerchief at the end. And if he takes out the handkerchief, it means that everybody should go along with Churchill. Halifax is sitting up in the gallery. And we all know of the conflict. Chamberlain appeasement, I’m being very simplistic here. But Chamberlain, appeasement, Halifax, negotiate with Herr. Hitler, and get Herr. Mussolini to be the interlocutor. And Churchill, well, you know the position. And this is one of the most extraordinary speeches. And I know that we’ve all heard it so many times, but it’s an incredible performance by Gary Oldman. And I think not only because of the moment with Ukraine and so on and Zelenskyy using this kind of speech, but if we try to imagine ourselves being on the stage of life in 1940 and what it must have felt like. And one person had the guts, the courage to stand up and give a speech like this.
To the question of the invasion, I would observe that there has never been a period in all these long centuries of which we boast when an absolute guarantee against invasion could have been given to our people. But I have, myself, full confidence that if all do their duty, if nothing is neglected, and the best arrangements are made, as they are being made, we shall prove ourselves once more able to defend our island home. To ride out the storm of war, and to outlive the menace of tyranny, if necessary for years, if necessary alone. At any rate, that is what we are going to try to do. That is the resolve of His Majesty’s government, every man of them. That is the will of Parliament and the nation. The British Empire and the French Republic, linked together in their cause and in their need, will defend to the death their native soil, aiding each other like good comrades to the utmost of their strength. Even though large tracts of Europe and many old and famous states have fallen or may fall into the grip of the Gestapo and all the odious apparatus of the Nazi rule, we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end! We shall fight in France. We shall fight on the seas and the oceans. We shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air. We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be! We shall fight on the beaches. We shall fight on the landing grounds. We shall fight in the fields and in the streets. We shall fight in the hills. We shall never surrender! And if… And if, which I do not for a moment believe, this island or large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British fleet, would carry on the struggle! Until, in God’s good time, the New World with all its power and might steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old!
For me, the incredible performance by Gary Oldman, it is so brilliant in so many ways with the voice, the language, his way of speaking, the body, everything and the filming, of course, all of that. And beyond it, the idea of fight and never ever stop fighting for something if you believe in it. In this case, freedom on probably one of the biggest macro levels ever in human history obviously. And the need to fight for it and never stop. But the way of putting the words together, the way of putting the acting together, freedom is not just never having nothing to lose. Freedom is there to be fought for. And this is what art can give us. This is what stories, songs, other things, all these different approaches to the understanding, totally different to Dylan of course, or you know, any of the others that I’m going to show. But it’s there and it involves a fight and it’s a never ceasing fight, which I believe very, very strongly. Okay, and then at the end of the scene, Halifax is up in the gallery and says to the guy next to him… The guy next to him says, “What has he done, Churchill?” And Halifax says, “Well, he’s mobilised the English language and sent it into war.” And in a way, I mean, it’s very good scriptwriting from the screenwriters, but it’s also the power of words, of language. Again, soft power of literature, of words, of poetry, of song. And our soft power really can have an effect. I’m not saying it really ultimately changes human history, but it can have an influence and it’s the artistry that soft power uses. Okay, the next piece is a totally different piece and it’s a piece of satire with some of my favourite, with Stephen Fry, who I absolutely love as a-
Coming up right now, the reunion of two men who made the nation laugh more than any other two men with the name of Ronnie. Welcome please, accompanied by Stephen Fry, the two Ronnies.
CLIP BEGINS
I’m modern man. I look down on them because I’m from a more advanced society.
I’m Renaissance’s man. I look up to him because he is on average four inches taller than I am. But I look down on him because he’s a smelly, ignorant surf.
I’m mediaeval man. I look up to them cause I am a smelly, ignorant surf. I live in a one room hovel made of straw and manure.
I live in a new Barrett’s estate, so I envy him. However, I do have hot and cold running water, a car, a Yamaha organ, a TV and a new video. Although, I don’t know how to work it.
I have cold running water, a map of the world, which includes the Americas, a telescope and the collected works of Homer in 39 weekly parts.
I have a pick. Although I don’t how to work it. I am so ignorant, I think the sun goes to bed at night.
I think the sun revolves around the earth.
I think the sun shines out of my trousers.
I work as a weaver. For that reason, I’m called Mr. Weaver.
I’m a miller, so I’m called Mr. Miller.
My name’s Ramsbottom, so I’m called sir.
I have a hard life. I’m 23. I have one day off a year when we get drunk and hit each other with pigs, bladders on sticks.
I have two days off a week when I watch TV and go to home base.
I have one day off a week when I go to church. But I must admit, the pigs bladder thing sounds a lot more fun.
I’m feudal. I believe in doing what his lordship tells me.
I’m an optimist. I believe in progress.
I’m New Labour, so I don’t believe in anything.
I encourage education. I teach my children to read.
My children don’t have a school so they can’t read.
My children go to comprehensive school so they can’t read either.
Throughout the history of Britain, some things never change.
I blame the Normans. I hate the French ‘cause they beat us in 1066.
I hate the French because they beat us in 1998.
I just hate the French. I don’t need a reason.
CLIP ENDS
- Okay, for me, I mean, I love Stephen Fry as an intellect, as a performer, and let’s say a public intellectual and real cultural thinker. Brilliant and actor. But for me, the idea of satire, which is about ridiculing power, ridiculing authority, not just comedy, which is making fun of human foils. And here the ridicule of how do we see the other from a mediaeval other periods. How do we see class social structures? Who’s superior, who’s inferior? The constant snakes and ladders of jockeying that we all do in life. I’m going to go up a few little ladders and down the snakes, et. cetera. And always comparing to somebody beneath me, always looking up somebody above. And I just love, it’s a short little sketch, but in the spirit of satire, what it says for me about freedom is a hell of a lot. And of course the freedom to ridicule. The freedom to mock the freedom to, exactly as I said at the beginning, liberal democracy does have the freedom to critique itself, to critique its own, very own foundations is from to debate it, critique and challenge it. It’s own very ideals on what a liberal democracy is, is for me the greatest idea of freedom within the liberal democracies. Okay. To show something very different now moving on from satire here, and this is called, “Goodbye Odessa.” A Yiddish song from the past. Okay to hold it there. So this this old Jewish song “Goodbye Odessa,” the Yiddish song. What is it actually for me is obviously there’s the joy and the sadness in the music. A past long gone. Is it only nostalgia? Is it naive, romantic nostalgia? Is it memory for an identity long gone? Is it romantic nostalgic? What has it got to do with freedom? Is there a yearning? And for me, the simple phrase l'Chaim always captures it for me.
I know it’s going way back to something so basic and simple, but it’s to life. There’s something for me whenever I know growing up saying that phrase, it’s to life. It’s something of a free, no matter what the adversity, however tough, the choice is to life. The choice isn’t like in many other religions or cultures, if you like, no matter how tough and rough the adversity is, you know, it’s worth in Churchill’s, you know, obviously great line, it’s worth the fight. In that case a huge fight. Here it’s the fight for joy, for life, for living. And what does it have to do with freedom? Maybe I’m stretching the point, but from the macro to the micro level of how Jewish philosophy, Jewish thinking comes inside it for me on a very individual level, you know, the entitlement to live. Not that this has to be given, you know, by some other power entitlement to grab life and live it and live it as freely as possible. And I think something of that is captured in the song. However, we may look at it today with a sense of nostalgia and idealism and through romantic eyes perhaps. And of course the gypsy feeling of the freedom and the gypsy feeling in the music and you know, of all the cultures of Romania and elsewhere feeding into the kind of music. Okay, I want to move on to the next one. And this is an interesting, I’m just going to show a little bit at the beginning.
This is again, that Playing for Change, the group where I mentioned where they take different artists from all over the world and this is a version from Barcelona and it’s the Barcelona Gypsy Kuzma Orchestra doing . I’m just going to play a little bit of it just to get a feel. Oh, sorry, it’s the next one. Oh no it’s not. It’s jumped. Okay, apologies. We’ll move on. This was an interesting choice for me 'cause I was going to go for the more obvious ones, but it’s the guitar riff at the beginning, which is again, that the wild scream of the guitar riff like Hendrix. But this is, you know, this is the Beatles doing it. This is only four years after they’re doing, you know, “Want to Hold Your Hand,” “Hard Days Night,” et. cetera. They’re doing a song like this, the Beatles. And for me, the influence of John Lennon and McCartney and all of them and what they really represented and what they still do because they speak to to kids of 15, 16 years old. They speak to older globally, absolutely huge. And I don’t think can be underestimated for a second. And what it feels, what it suggests about the idea of freedom.
SONG BEGINS
♪ You say you want a revolution ♪ ♪ You say you want a revolution ♪ ♪ Well you know ♪ ♪ We’d all love to change the world ♪ ♪ You tell me that it’s evolution ♪ ♪ Well you know ♪ ♪ We’d all love to change the world ♪ ♪ But when you talk about destruction ♪ ♪ Don’t you know you can count me out, in ♪ ♪ Don’t you know it’s going to be ♪ ♪ All right ♪ ♪ Don’t you know it’s going to be, all right ♪ ♪ Don’t you know it’s going to be, all right ♪ ♪ You say you got a real resolution ♪ ♪ Well you know ♪ ♪ We’d all love to see the plan ♪ ♪ You ask me for a contribution ♪ ♪ Well you know ♪ ♪ We’re all doing what we can ♪ ♪ But if you want money for people with minds that hate ♪ ♪ All I can tell you is brother you have to wait ♪ ♪ Don’t you know it’s going to be all right ♪ ♪ Don’t you know it’s going to be all right ♪ ♪ You say you’ll change the constitution ♪ ♪ Well you know ♪ ♪ We’d all love to change your head ♪ ♪ You tell me that it’s the institution ♪ ♪ Well, you know ♪ ♪ You better free your mind instead ♪ ♪ But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao ♪ ♪ You aint going to make it with anyone, anyhow ♪
SONG ENDS
- Okay, I’m going to hold it there. Just a couple of the lines that these guys are writing. “You say you want to revolution, well, you know, we’ll want to change the world. You tell me that it’s evolution. Well, you know, we all want to change the world, but when you talk about destruction, don’t you know that you can count me out? You say you got a solution. Well, you know, we’d all love to see the plan. You’re asking for a contribution. Well, you know, we’ll do what we can. But if you want money for people with minds that hate, well I can tell you is brother, you’re going to have to wait,” and then it goes on. You know, “You better free your mind instead. But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao you ain’t going to make it with anyone anyhow.” So, you know, it’s in their own way, at such a young age, they’re finding the words, besides they’re besides the amazing guitar riff, they’re finding the words. You know, what is revolution? What is freedom? If they’re posing the question. And now to go to one of my favourites, “Yes, Minister.” And a very different satire about an idea of freedom.
CLIP BEGINS
Now Bernard, I want to have a word with you about Professor Marriott’s article.
Yes, I think it’s about time we reform local government.
Do you Bernard?
Yes. At least I think I did. That is, I’m not wholly against it. Although there are many convincing, some might say conclusive arguments against it.
Some might indeed, Bernard.
Yes. Why?
Because Bernard, once you create genuinely democratic local communities, it won’t stop there.
[Bernard] Won’t it?
Well of course it won’t. You see, once they get established, they’ll insist on more power and the politicians will be too frightened to withhold them. So you’ll get regional government.
Would that matter?
Bernard come sit down. Well, what happens at the moment if there is some vacant land in say, Nottingham and the arrival proposals for its use, you know, our hospital or college or an airport?
Well, we set up an inter-departmental committee, department of health, department of education, department of transport, treasury environment, ask for papers, hold meetings, propose, discuss, revise, report, back redraft normal thing.
Precisely months of fruitful work. Leading to a mature and responsible conclusion. But if you have regional government, they decide it all in Nottingham, probably in a couple of meetings, complete amateurs.
It is their city.
And what happens to us?
Much less work.
Yes. Much less work. Some little ministers might almost be able to do it on their own. So we’d have much less power.
Well, I don’t know whether I really want power.
Bernard, if the right people don’t have power, do you know what happens? The wrong people get it. Politicians, counsellors, ordinary voters.
But aren’t they supposed to in a democracy?
This is a British democracy.
How do you mean?
British democracy recognises that you need a system to protect the important things of life and keep them out of the hands of the barbarians. Things like the opera, Radio Three, the countryside, the law. The universities, both of them. And we are that system.
Gosh.
We run a civilised aristocratic government machine tempered by occasional general elections. Since 1832 we have been gradually excluding the voter from government. Now we’ve got them to a point where they just vote once every five years for which bunch of buffoons will try to interfere with our policies. And you are happy to see all that thrown away.
Well, no, no, no. I didn’t mean.
Bernard, do you want the Lake District turned into a gigantic caravan site, the Royal Opera House into a bingo hall? The National Theatre into a carpet sale warehouse?
Well, he looks like one, actually.
We gave the architect a knighthood so that nobody would ever say that. Do you want Radio Three to broadcast pop music 24 hours a day? And how would you feel if they took all the culture programmes off television?
I dunno, I never watched them
Well, neither do I, but it’s vital to know that they’re there.
But you always said local government was corrupt and incompetent.
Well, so it is Bernard so corrupt and incompetent that even ministers-
CLIP ENDS
- Okay, so for me, obviously the satire and satire, as I’ve often said, is the ultimate expression of freedom in a society where it can critique itself, it can ridicule and muck itself. And that is a hallmark of a free society 'cause it ain’t allowed in so many of the other societies, which are obviously unfree. So freedom in another way with this brilliant writing always of “Yes Minister.” Okay. And this is in honour of a couple of people who’ve asked me to play this.
CLIP BEGINS
Give me an F.
[Crowd] F.
Give me a U.
[Crowd] U.
Give me a C.
[Crowd] C.
Give me a K.
[Crowd] K.
What’s that spell?
[Crowd] Fuck.
What’s that spell?
[Crowd] Fuck.
What’s that spell?
[Crowd] Fuck.
What’s that spell?
[Crowd] Fuck.
What’s that spell?
[Crowd] Fuck. ♪ Well, come on, all of you, big strong man, ♪ ♪ Uncle Sam need your help again ♪ ♪ Got himself been a terrible jam ♪ ♪ Way down yonder in Vietnam. ♪ ♪ Put down the books and pick up a gun ♪ ♪ We’re going to have a whole lot of fun ♪ ♪ And its 1, 2, 3, what are we fighting for? ♪ ♪ Don’t ask me, I don’t give a damn ♪ ♪ My next stop is Vietnam ♪ ♪ And it’s 5, 6, 7 open up the pearly gates ♪ ♪ Well, there ain’t no time to wonder why ♪ ♪ Whoopee! We all going to die ♪ ♪ Now come on Wall Street, don’t be slow ♪ ♪ Why man, this is War-a-go-go ♪ ♪ There’s plenty good money to be made ♪ ♪ Supplying the army with tools of the trade ♪ ♪ Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb ♪ ♪ They drop it on the Viet Cong ♪ ♪ And it’s one, two, three ♪ ♪ What are we fighting for? ♪ ♪ Don’t ask me, I don’t give a damn ♪ ♪ Next stop is Vietnam ♪ ♪ And it’s five, six, seven ♪ ♪ Open up the pearly gates ♪ ♪ Well there ain’t no time to wonder why ♪ ♪ Whoopee! We’re all going to die. ♪ ♪ Well, come on generals, let’s move fast ♪ ♪ Your big chance has come at last ♪ ♪ Got to go out and get those reds ♪ ♪ The only good commie is the one who’s dead ♪ ♪ And you know that peace can only be won ♪ ♪ When we’ve blown 'em all to Kingdom Come ♪ ♪ Sing it ♪ ♪ 1, 2, 3 what are we fighting for? ♪ ♪ Don’t as me, I don’t give a damn. ♪
Louder. ♪ Vietnam ♪ ♪ And it’s 5, 6, 7 open up the pearly gates ♪ ♪ Well there ain’t no time to wonder why ♪ ♪ Whoopee! We’re all going to die ♪
Listen is people, I don’t know how you expect to ever stop the war. You can’t sing any better than that. It’s about 300,000 of you fuckers out there. I want you to start singing. Come on. ♪ And it’s 1, 2, 3 ♪ ♪ What are we fighting for? ♪ ♪ Don’t ask me, I don’t give a damn ♪ ♪ Next stop is Vietnam ♪ ♪ And it’s five, six, seven ♪ ♪ Open up the pearly gates ♪ ♪ Well there ain’t no time to wonder why ♪ ♪ Whoopee! we’re all going to die ♪ ♪ Well, come on mothers throughout the land ♪ ♪ Pack your boys off to Vietnam ♪ ♪ Come on fathers, don’t hesitate ♪ ♪ Send 'em off before it’s too late ♪ ♪ Be the first one on your block ♪ ♪ To have your boy come home in a box ♪ ♪ And it’s one, two, three ♪ ♪ What are we fighting for? ♪ ♪ Don’t ask me, I don’t give a damn ♪
CLIP ENDS
- Okay I’m going to hold it there. Play the one last one after this. And that was in honour 'cause as we all know, Trudy has had covid and to wish her all health and recovery. And that one was for Trudy to hopefully help your recovery. Okay, instead of playing “Free Mandela,” and other songs, which I’ve had prepared here as well, I’m going to sound like a radio host. Okay. And I’m going to play out. I’ve got “Free Mandela,” the Biko song. There’s so many here that we can choose. And of course the remarkable scene from “The Pianist.” We, he plays the piano for the Nazi officer. But I’m going to play out with I think a bit of a different one, which goes back to me of a different sense of freedom at this time. And it’s a Leonard Cohen one. I’m sure everybody will recognise it, but there’s something about the music and the lyrics, the way he sings it, which captures a spirit of freedom in the artistic sense, fight for it, live it, the l'Chaim sense, all of these qualities coming together, overcoming adversity, suffering of age and other things, other images. The burning violence in the song, obviously echoing, you know, the concentration camps.
SONG BEGINS
♪ Dance me to your beauty with a burning violin ♪ ♪ Dance me through the panic till I’m gathered safely in ♪ ♪ Lift me like an olive branch and be my homeward dove ♪ ♪ Dance me to the end of love ♪ ♪ Dance me to the end of love ♪ ♪ Oh, let me see your beauty when the witnesses are gone ♪ ♪ Let me feel you moving like they do in Babylon ♪ ♪ Show me slowly what I only know the limits of ♪ ♪ Dance me to the end of love ♪ ♪ Dance me to the end of love ♪ ♪ Dance me to the wedding now, dance me on and on ♪ ♪ Dance me very tenderly and dance me very long ♪ ♪ We’re both of us beneath our love, we’re both of us above ♪ ♪ Dance me to the end of love ♪ ♪ Dance me to the end of love ♪ ♪ Dance me to the children who are asking to be born ♪ ♪ Dance me through the curtains that our kisses have outworn ♪ ♪ Raise a tent of shelter now, though every thread is torn ♪ ♪ Dance me to the end of love ♪ ♪ Dance me to your beauty with a burning violin ♪ ♪ Dance me through the panic till I’m gathered safely in ♪ ♪ Touch me with your naked hand or ♪ ♪ touch me with your glove ♪ ♪ Dance me to the end of love ♪ ♪ Dance me to the end of love ♪ ♪ Dance me to the end of love ♪
SONG ENDS
Okay, I’ll hold this because we’re moving to the end. But for me, what he’s also singing, I mean obviously, you know, love stories and so on, but it’s something about a free impulse, a freedom, an impulse for freedom to live, to love, to overcome the horrors of the past of one’s community, of history, of a society, which requires a huge leap of faith. But the freedom to do that in a society and the freedom of embracing life as opposed to in Dylan’s phrase, you know, “You and I, we’ve been through that, that is not our fate,” the cynicism, which is so easy to jump into. And I guess finally, you know, to come back to Churchill, the vigilance to always fight for it, the vigilance to be so aware can never be taken for granted. Freedom goes together with unfreedom and not wanting to step into a simple binary, but the freedom to needs a constant awareness to fight and never stop it. And on the macro level, on the micro level of life, and I think what these artists all try to do is combine the two in so many different ways, more joyous, more sad, more compassionate, more angry, more vicious, more gentle in whatever way. And whatever the background and the history they’re coming from slavery of all different kinds of annihilation, of different kinds. And so many of the traumas of history, how they still try through music, through song, through words, soft power, you know, give a glimpse, the crack where the light can get in, of something on freedom. And I think, you know, art can’t really try for much more in this huge area. We just get a tiny little moment today of this huge area of looking at the idea of freedom. Okay, so thank you very much and going to hold radio hour there for today as a bit of a different approach to the usual more intellectual.
[Lauren] And David, can you take a few questions?
Yeah, sure. Thanks Lauren.
Q&A and Comments:
Okay, Jerome, Richie Haven’s freedom, absolutely.
Q: Harriet, evidence of those who believe in free choice be more susceptible to manipulation or is it an opinion?
A: Great point, Harriet. That’s what Harari argues. And I find it interesting because he’s going against the grain. Most people would, would argue with him and say, “No, he is wrong.” But what he’s arguing is that the irony of people who believe in free choice can be open to more manipulation because they’re not aware of how the algorithm is dictating their choice.
Monique, Mark Twain famously wrote that is easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. Spot on, Monique, it’s a great quote from Mark Twain.
Rodney, free choice is not an artistic illusion, just a practical one. That’s a great one. Great line.
Vivian, the name of Harari’s books, it’s a collection of essays by him and ways of living in the 21st century. Evelyn feeling homesick for my youth. I know this is a bit of a nostalgic and I imagine romantic trip into elements of the past, but there is something of history does repeat itself in maybe in different clothes. And the same themes come up again of, you know, youth revolt. Although it’s of course the phenomenon of the teenager and perhaps it’s a middle class thing. But yeah, there is something about that sense of youth and where it went.
Sonya, Jimmy Hendrix’s version inspired choice. It’s a much better voice and it’s extraordinary when you look at what he’s doing with that guitar. If you look at the chords and how he’s playing, amazing. And that free spirit in that rock that Hendrix brings.
Linda, they still don’t know how Hendrix did his magnificent cascading guitar and riffs. I know. I’ve read a lot about how he taught himself the guitar and studied what he did, but I think it’s just a phenomenal talent. You know, it’s a talent which is, you know, like Muhammad Ali in boxing. For me, you know, Hendrix with a guitar. Joan Full Ox, I’m going to say it now. Yep.
Barbara, “Darkest Hours” on Netflix. Great, thanks.
Myrna, Miriam’s Song of the Sea is the earliest, would you say? Yeah, that’s great.
Bernard, want to play the original? Not sure which one you mean. Okay, Barbara, thanks. Okay, Barbara again, thank you.
David, the family photos. Yeah, I know when one looks at these photos, I mean that, that song is “Goodbye Odessa,” and you see a way of living. Yes, it is nostalgic and it is romanticised. I mean, putting all these family photos together, weddings and, you know, festivals and celebrations and so on, you know, it’s a bit too much saccharine maybe, but it sticks in the historical imagination of Jews of what was lost or destroyed.
Harriet, they may have won all the battles, but we had all the good songs. Tom Lehrer on the Spanish civil war. One of the great lines of Tom Lehrer. Absolutely.
Gail, how you? Okay. How you keeping hope? Hope you okay in Joburg.
Translation for the Yiddish, I’ll try and find it.
Q: Harriet, could you please share the link with the Odessa video.
A: Yeah, I mean I can get it through, Get it sent in through Lauren or through Lockdown.
Ivan, great, thanks. Be nice for us oldies to read the words. Okay.
Ada, if you’re thinking of songs of lyrics about changing the world, one of the most simply beautiful was Israel’s iconic singer, the late Eric Einstein.
Ah, okay. “Me and you will change the world.” Yep.
Ralph, I recently obtained a book of poems, songs, by Leonard Cohen. The more you look at Leonard Cohen, I agree with you Rolf. It’s the depth of his understanding of human condition and linking it with Jewish and other tradition and philosophy, an extraordinary level of depth and working through metaphor in the true poetic tradition. Barbara, thanks for you. Judah, thank you.
Romaine Hope, art and Zelenskyy. Well, Zelenskyy is an entertainer. He knows how to mobilise words and how to mobilise the media, the internet brilliantly. And you know, let’s be honest, he’s 44, you know, and he’s coming from a tradition of being a comedian, an entertainer and trying to have a small country stand up against, you know, possibly the second, third biggest military in the world and, you know, would help rarely, I mean, getting weapons and everything, but never going to get boots on the ground.
Marcia, titles of the second and ninth clip. Great selection. I’ll have a look again, Marcia. Sure.
Janice, he version of that’s done by, I was going to play the Barcelona, Klezmer Orchestra and they work out Barcelona and they play Klezmer music with a Spanish influence. It’s fascinating. Rose, thank you. A full hour on Leonard Cohen. Pleasure.
Q: Beverly, do you think all cultures and languages have satire?
A: Yes, without a doubt and I’ve researched even ancient oral storytelling had satire, you know, going back thousands of years before the Greeks and before theatre as we know it, there was satire, there was the ridiculing of authority of some kind. It was way back in many cultures.
Okay, Sherry, thanks. Okay, for your comment, Aida, the Leonard Cohen. Yeah, I wanted to end with that as opposed to there were many others that could have done the free Mandela song, could have done scene Casablanca where they sing the Marseille as opposed to the German song and others. But something about the Leonard Cohen goes, it captures the micro in the macro for me. The Leonard Cohen was the Leonard Cohen song. You mean “Dance me to the End of love,”.
Okay, Naomi, thank you. Alison, thanks for your comment. Okay, Eileen. Okay.
Yeah, thank you for your using the word here just from 708722. I want you to give a slight tenderness to it because I think freedom is a very fragile notion. I don’t think it can be assumed for a second, and I think it can be extinguished in a flash. I really do. In democracies not only obviously dictatorships. And thoughts here to Trudy. Carol. Okay, Clara. Okay.
Your favourite song, “Dance Me To The End of Love.” Yep. And also the fact that he shows in the video, Leonard Cohen shows it’s all elderly people, primarily that he’s showing and there’s a reason behind that and it’s obvious. Neville, thank you.
Q: What do I think is more powerful? The image or the sound?
A: I think it’s a very good question. I think the two go together. I mean, if you put the image only without the sound it’s a bit tricky, the sound without the image as well. I think the power is putting the two together in our contemporary words. Susan, thank you for comment.
Everyone Josie Radio Hour. Okay, well I’ve got influenced by Bob Dylan’s Radio Hour and many others. I love listening every now and then to these guys, you know, can relax a bit more. The two Ronnies. Yeah. And the “Yes Minister,” always.
Marion, you need to have experienced freedom and internally to make it, to understand. Yep, I agree. Okay, Marry. Thank you Cheryl. Thank you, your comments. Okay.
Q: Why do you think Jillian, the Marseille in Casablanca, when you think of it, refugees of the Nazi singing?
A: Well, I think in that scene, which is not a scene that’s often quoted from Casablanca, it’s a scene that seems to the way it’s filmed, it’s so well filmed, it’s so subtle because it seems that the Marseille song just sort of comes in. It doesn’t ever feel forced for a moment. And I think that’s the extraordinary power of that particular scene. And the meaning, it’s left. You know, we don’t need to be didactic in the movie.
Beethoven’s ninth. Yeah. Jean, thanks. Louise. Pete Seger. Yeah, so many of them. Mike Broomfield. Wish I had chosen, “Hey Jude,” I know there’s just too many.
Marilyn, Miriam rap what I think of rap. I think rap is a karate of freedom, as you say, Miriam, I agree entirely and I wouldn’t under estimate rap for a second and the power of the younger generation rap is youth revolt. But more than that it’s youth self-expression and individuality. Of course the flip side is mass conformity 'cause everybody dances the same way. Everybody dresses the same way and everybody has a baseball cap, the same, you know, everything, but you’re never going to get it without mass conformity. This was the same of the sixties and rock. So I think that rap, it does scream in a way that punk screams for limited crushing of the individual spirit. Josie Leonard Cohen. Yep.
Oh, “the Mystical Roots of Genius,” by Harry Friedman. Thank you. It’s brilliant book about Leonard Cohen. Brenda, the clip before Leonard Cohen. That was, I think the one you meant was country Joe and the fish. That was the clip. Okay. So I think that’s most of, all the questions.
Thank you so much everybody. Really hope you’re well. And in the spirit of Passover coming and Exodus and freedom and something of what we celebrate together in that a little bit of a Radio Hour, as we tell the old ancient story yet again. And just in a sense, what it means on the micro and macro level.