Patrick Bade
Introduction to Opera, Part 2: French Opera

Patrick Bade - Introduction to Opera, Part 2: French Opera

- [Judi] Welcome, everybody, and welcome, Patrick, and over to you.

• Thank you, Judi. Such a gorgeous tune! You just think, how can anybody sit down and write a tune like that? That is the “Meditation” from Massenet’s opera “Thais.” And at the end you hear all these ecstatic monks and nuns going “ooh” and “aah.” And it’s a very typical example of that mixture of eroticism and religiosity that was so popular in France at the end of the 19th century. Massenet rather Indiscreetly wrote a letter to his fellow composer, Vincent d'Indy, saying, “I don’t really believe in all that Jesus stuff, but, of course, the public likes it and one must always give the public what it wants.” And it was that letter that Vincent d'Indy, of course, was very Catholic, very conservative, he did not approve. And it gave Massenet a rather louche reputation. But I’m going to move on to something a little more serious. And the opera, which could be described as The French opera, the essentially French opera, and that is Debussy’s “Pelleas et Melisande,” which was permeated in in 1902.

And this gives me really an opportunity to differentiate between Italian opera and French opera. It couldn’t be more different from Verdi or Puccini. We have no bravura at all. There are no very high notes, no passages where the singers had to sing very loudly. There’s no coloratura or florate writing, and it’s not the sort of opera full of catchy tunes that you hum or whistle on the way home. So what do you have? What do you have? You have a text that has been set to music with the utmost refinement and delicacy and a good performance of “Pelleas” with a francophone cast, you ought to be able to hear every single word and you ought to be able to understand every single word that is sung. And this is against a web of a sort of diaphanous iridescent web of the most exquisite sound in the orchestra. Now, it’s not to everybody’s taste. Puccini said that it was as monochrome and grey as a Franciscans habit. But that didn’t stop him actually studying the score very, very carefully and shamelessly actually thieving harmonic and orchestral effects, which he used in his next opera, “Madam Butterfly.” Now, it’s a little bit of , I know many opera lovers just can’t grasp “Pelleas.”

On the other hand, I think it reaches a public that is beyond the normal opera public of perhaps more refined music lovers. And it’s an opera which casts a magic spell. For me, it’s one of my two or three favourite operas. You know, I never miss an opportunity to see it when I can. And it puts me into, takes me to another world. It’s actually quite difficult for me to recover and go back to the real world after hearing “Pelleas.” I’m going to play you the opening scene. This is, you’ve got Debussy here on the left and on the right, it’s the opening scene as it looked in the 1902 premiere in Golaud. Prince Golaud has lost himself in a forest while hunting. And he comes across the beautiful Melisande weeping beside a pool. And they have a very strange conversation, a sort of dysfunctional conversation, really, where neither really is understanding what the other one is saying. And that sets the tone for the rest of the opera. And where is my little thing to… Oh, here it’s, yeah. We’ve got the words. You can follow the words.

• Now, but fear not, there will be tunes this evening, and of course, Bizet’s “Carmen” probably has more popular tunes in it than any other opera ever written. And I’m quite sure that, well, I can see there are, at the moment, there are 941 people connected, and I bet really all 941 could sing along with what I’m going to play you next.

• Now, for the past 100 years, “Carmen” has been the most popular and most widely performed of all operas. But when it was first performed in Paris in 1876, it was a complete flop. And Bizet died soon afterwards thinking that he was a failure and that his opera was a failure. And in fact, as far as French opera is concerned, “Carmen” is a kind of a one-off. It was a sort of dead end. Its impact was much greater outside of France, particularly in Italy. The Verismo movement in the 1890s in Italy very much comes out of “Carmen,” operas like “Cavalleria Rusticana,” “Pagliacci,” both of them like “Carmen,” involving a crime of passion and using big, juicy popular tunes to grab the audience. Now, I want to say something again about language and how it determines the nature of opera in different countries. So I’m going to play you a typical Italian singer and a typical French singer singing the same passage, which is the opening of Mimi’s Act 1 aria in Puccini’s “La Boheme” Last week, if you remember, I played you Renata Tebaldi, who could be said to have the classic Italian voice, open throated, warm, gorgeous, luscious.

• And we’re going to hear the same passage sung by a very lovely French soprano of the same generation called Martha Angelici. Of course, she sings it in French. Now, I think French is a very beautiful language, but it’s a difficult language to sing in. It’s much more difficult to sing in than Italian, particularly, I would say, for non-francophone singers. So Renata Tebaldi sings , beautiful, pure vow sounds, whereas Martha Angelici has . Now try and make that into a beautiful sound.

• So a lot of French is in the nose, . Lots of on, en in French, which doesn’t make for an open throated sound. Now French sopranos, again, rather like “Pelleas,” they’re a a very special taste. And I have one friend, great opera lover, incredibly knowledged, who really can’t stand the sound of French sopranos. Some people find them shrill, acidic. I think that what you’ve just heard to me, that’s a very beautiful sound, and I don’t hear it as acid. I would say more it’s a voice with a squeeze of lemon in it. It’s a rather pointed sound. And I want to play you a another very, very typical, to me, very lovely French singer. This is Renee Doria, and I’ll talk to you more a little bit about her later. She died earlier this year, aged 100. And here she is in the aria from the “Les Pecheurs de Perles”. And you’ll see again, it’s a bright pointed sound. In this case she has a trace of rapid vibrato, which is common to not just French, but Latin singers. You find it sometimes in Italian singers as well.

• Now all French singers from bases right up to sopranos tend to sound brighter and higher than their equivalence in other schools of opera. I’m going to put you a third French soprano. This is Mado Robin, who you see on the left, singing her most famous role, which was Lakme. And when I first heard her, it must have been in the early ‘70s, and I was in a restaurant in Paris, and they were playing a gramophone record. And I was eating my lunch and listening to this and thinking, I can’t believe that this record is playing at the right speed. It’s just not possible. So I actually got up and I went over to check and see that it was, in those days, of course, it was a vinyl record, that it was playing at 33 revolutions per minute. And indeed it was, and this is what I heard. Tenors. Well, French tenors are perhaps less controversial than French sopranos. And they traditionally, well, if they had their heroic tenors, but French tenors were notable for their sensitivity and almost feminine sensibility. And the repertoire I’m talking about required singers, French tenors, to use, I’m going to use some technical terms here, head tones, voix mixte, and the very top of the voice, what the Italians call falsetto. So it’s a very difficult thing to explain in words. So I think what I’m going to do is play a wonderful example of this kind of singing. In fact, this is Alain Vanzo, and he who died quite recently and was certainly singing to the end of the 20th century. And you’ll see how in this aria there are is very subtle transitions from the chest voice into the head voice through what’s called voix mixte, a mixture of the two. So you shouldn’t really be aware of any transitions in the way of making the sound. If you are aware of the transitions, of course, it becomes yodelling. I mean, yodelling depends on going very sharply backwards and forwards between chest tone and head tone. So, he manages these transitions so exquisitely creating a very lovely and a very poetic effect.

• Now that’s the kind of singing that, say, Pavarotti or even Jussi Bjorling, they would’ve been really utterly incapable of producing those kind of delicate transitions and effects. Now, in the late 19th, early 20th century, France rivalled Italy as the country that produced most of the world’s greatest singers. Paris and Milan were the two cities that, if you wanted a great career, you had to go to train. In fact, I would say round about 1900, Paris actually surpassed Milan. Here are two of, if you had to produce a list of the top 10 singers in 1900, these two would’ve certainly been on it. This is a great soprano Emma Calve on the left, she was probably the most famous Carmen of all time. And Pol Plancon a really spectacular bass. No, I don’t think anybody since him has matched him for brilliance of technique. So those were French singers. But here Jean de Reszke, the world’s greatest tenor in 1900 without rival, before Caruso. He was actually Polish, but of course, French trained and French based, and really French in his technique. And the same is true of the Scottish soprano who is a superstar, that’s Mary Garden on the right hand side. Now, moving through voice categories, French opera has wonderful roles for the mezzo-soprano. Many of them, Carmen is most famous, of course, Delilah, Mignon, Charlotte, There are terrific opportunities for French mezzos. This is Carmen on the left, Delilah on the right. And again, French mezzos traditionally it’s a very different sound from German mezzos or Italian mezzos. So you don’t expect from a French mezzo the kind of blowsy, bosomy, wobbly sound you might get from a German mezzo. And you certainly don’t expect from a French mezzo the vulgar aggressive use of chest voice that you might have from an Italian mezzo. You expect a smoother, more contained kind of sound. And as an example, I’m going to play you the singer Helene Bouvier singing the big aria from “Samson and Delilah.”

• I know you’re going to be thinking, “Oh, Patrick, he only lights his singers dead and buried, old singers.” And there is some truth in that. And I, particularly as far as France and Italy is concerned, it does seem to me that in recent years, they haven’t continued to produce the great kind of voices they did in the past. And this lady, she’s not on your list because I only put her in today, she’s the latest kid on the block as far as French singing is concerned. She’s called Gaelle Arquez, A-R-Q-U-E-Z. And I happened to see her in Paris in “La Belle Helene” about six weeks ago, and I was absolutely bowled over. She is simply amazing. And she has all those wonderful qualities of the traditional French mezzo that I’ve just been describing to you. It’s a very beautiful voice, a very sumptuous voice. It’s also focused, it’s sort of pointed, focused, contained voice. And as you can see, she’s also drop dead gorgeous, which never did any singer any harm. So this is a record which has actually just come out, but I’m sure this is a name that you are going… She’s really at the beginning of her career, I think she’s about to make a Met debut. But this is surely somebody who you’re going to hear a lot of in the near future.

• Throughout the 19th century and up to 1914, Paris was the operatic capital of the world. And every great composer aspired to have an opera put on at Paris Opera. Rossini, obviously Donizetti, Bellini, Verde, Wagner, Meyerbeer, even Tchaikovsky, though that never happened, they all wrote operas that they hoped would be put on. This is the great Palais Garnier built under the Second Empire but not opened until a decade later, in the 1870s, the most amazing opera house. I think it’s certainly the biggest opera house in the world in terms of entire floor space, although as you can see, it actually has a rather small auditorium. The really enormous areas are the public areas of the staircase. I’ll show you in a minute, the fly tower and the back of the stage. I mean, if you’re lucky enough to go to a performance at Garnier and they open up the back of the stage, you can actually see right to the back of the building. It’s an enormous, enormous space. And next to it, top left, is the Salle Favart, which after afar was reopened in 1899. That’s the Opera Comique. Now, as we know from our experience of our time in the European Union, the French, they love rules and regulations and they love categorising things, they like to put things into pigeon holes.

So these are the two state opera houses, the Palais Garnie and the Salle Favart, the Opera, and the Opera Comique. And they were two different genres of opera. It’s rather like, you know, categorising cheeses or categorising wines. An opera had to be long. It was expected to be about five hours. It had to incorporate a ballet. It had to be what the Germans would call . That means it had to be sung all the way through, music all the way through. An opera comique, on the other hand, could be shorter and more intimate, and musical numbers were linked by spoken dialogue, what the Germans were called a singspiel. And initially, they were very strict about this. So an opera comique didn’t have to have a happy ending. It didn’t have to be very comic, I mean “Carmen” was written as an opera comique. And Beethoven’s “Fidelio,” which is hardly a bundle of laughs, was categorised as an opera comique because it has spoken dialogue and was not allowed and to be performed at Palais Garnier until well into the 20th century for that reason. Here is the one of the most amazing staircases in the world, absolutely staggering the staircase to the Paris Opera. And they always said it didn’t really matter if the opera was good or bad. You still got your money’s worth if you just stood at the bottom of the staircase. And you watched the great and the good and the wicked and the beautiful, all streaming down the staircase initially by gaslight, then later by electric light, all women in their gorgeous dresses, in their furs, in their diamonds and so on.

And more views of the interior, the absolutely breathtaking interior of the Paris Opera. And this is the most famous exemplar of the Opera with the capital O that was put on at the the Paris Opera was the German-Jewish composer Meyerbeer. He was king of the Paris Opera through much of the 19th century. This is actually not what it is. No, this is Verdi, right? This is “Don Carlos” that was also written for the Opera and is on a massive scale, has big crowd scenes and lots of spectacle. So here’s the Opera Comique, which is much smaller. I think it is my favourite opera house in the world. Partly, I suppose, because I saw my very first opera there. Last week, somebody was recommending what operas you should see to introduce people to opera. “Boheme,” their list was “Boheme,” “Aida,” “Carmen.” My recommendation would definitely be “Boheme,” and I saw it there. I can tell you it was on August the 31st, 1963. And it was an unforgettable experience. It’s really quite small and quite intimate. It’s not a comfortable theatre if you have leg problems.

Then I said, you need to really think about that and get a seat in a box or a seat where, there are some seats where you can stretch your legs a bit more. And of course, the Grand Opera and the Opera Comique, they performed a very of important social function in France in the 19th century. It was where people met, where deals were done, where the grande horizontale picked up their customers, where marriages were arranged. And they also had quite louche reputations. And particularly the Opera, there was a book published in the 1880s for English-speaking sex tourists to Paris and telling 'em where they could find sex in Paris. And the Opera House was one of the places. And the author of it says, “Every woman at the Opera from the grandest diva down to the cleaning woman is available at her price.” Now, those were the two great Paris opera houses, but there was a whole, how can I say, it’s a system, a network of opera houses throughout France, right up till, I suppose, the 1960s. This is a Marseilles Opera on the right, the Bordeaux Opera… No, it’s the Marseilles on the left, Bordeaux on the right. This is the exquisite tiny opera house in Monte-Carlo, only seats 400 people, but it’s still pretty lavish. And also in other francophone countries, the French-speaking parts of Switzerland and the Monnaie, for instance, in Brussels, very important francophone house.

This is what was on at the Monnaie in 1925. This interests me because my grandparents lived in Brussels in 1925, and they were great opera-goers. I used to ask my granny about how it was. Unfortunately, the only thing she could remember about her visits to the Monnaie in the 1920s were the hats that she wore. She couldn’t tell me anything about the singers. But this is interesting. When you look, this is the entire repertoire for April, 1925. Everything, of course, sung in French, whether it was French or not. And you do, you’ve got one Russian opera, “Prince Igor.” You’ve got full staff to represent in “Tosca,” Italian opera. But otherwise, everything is French. Everything is French. Oh, it’s “Maitres Chanteurs” also sung in French. And not only in Europe, but of course, the French Empire second in size only to the British, and wherever the French went in the world, they built their delightful opera houses. This is Tunis, Iran, Hanoi. And everywhere they went, they took French opera.

And the one opera, of course, they took everywhere was Gounod’s “Faust,” this, until it was overtaken by “Carmen” in the 20th century, Gounod’s “Faust” was the opera that was by far the most performed everywhere in New York, London, New York’s Met. It got the nickname, “the Faust Spiel House” because “Faust” was performed there every year. And it’s an opera that, for me, has great charm. It has a certain dusty, museum, 19th century quality about it. I think what really makes it worthwhile is the wonderful love music throughout. Of course, the Germans regard it as an absolute travesty of Goethe’s literary masterpiece, a trivialization, precisely because of the concentration on the love between Faust and Marguerite, which is hardly the most central thing to Goethe’s original plays. But here is an excerpt from the big love duet in the garden scene sang by Angela Gheorghiu and Roberto Alagna, who, of course, at the time they recorded this, they were still married.

• And on to another very, very famous duet that everybody knows. I’m going to play you a series of these actually. And this is the tenor-baritone duet from Bizet’s “The Pearl Fishers,” which is by far, of course, the most famous and frequently performed number in the opera. Now I’m about to drop a bomb now, and I know I’m going to get clobbered for this at the end., the version which I imagine everybody knows is that the Bjorling, Robert Merrill version, which is, I admit, very beautiful. They both have wonderful voices. But in my opinion, they don’t really know how this duet should be sung. Their performance is stiff and unidiomatic, without all the nuances, the sort of thing I was talking about earlier with Alain Vanzo. And it’s him, Vanzo again singing in this duet with exquisite shading, wonderful use of the voix mixte and the head turns. Is it this one?

• Sad to have to interrupt that, but we have to move on. And of course, as another duet that I can’t really leave out of this talk, and this is the one that has become known as the British Airways theme. People are always saying to me, “Oh, is there anything else in 'Lakme’ that’s any good apart from the British Airways to it?” Yes, yes, there is! It’s a fabulous opera. It’s absolutely gorgeous. It’s just got one delicious aria and duet are for another all the way through. I mean, it’s never been very popular in Britain, I think partly ‘cause it has a very naughty, rather cruel French view of the British abroad. They’re very much mocked in this opera. But don’t let that put you off. I’m sorry I can’t play you more from this opera, but I suppose I do have to play you this.

• Now, the most prolific and successful French composer of opera in the 19th century was Jules Massenet. His operas were performed all over the world. His reputation has faded somewhat since. So he went out of fashion, I would say after the First World War, leaving just two of his many operas in the standard repertoire. The two operas that you are likely to hear are “Manon” and “Werther,” both written for the Opera Comique. Although in fact “Werther” was initially rejected by the Opera Comique and first performed in Vienna. But I want to play you two extracts from “Thais.” That is an opera that sort of hangs on at the edge of the repertoire when you can find a glamorous soprano with a confident secure top D, I mean, that’s a lot to ask. 'Cause Renee Fleming had a good run at it, she sang it all over the world, actually. She just toured the world singing “Thais” for a couple of years. It was written… Somebody asked me last time, do composers write for particular singers? Yes, they do.

And Massenet was completely besotted with an American soprano called Sybil Sanderson. She was considered a great beauty, you see here in the middle. Sadly, she died very young. So I mean, she died just before it would’ve been possible to make recordings. So we don’t really know what her voice was like, except that she had an extraordinary extension at the top. She could go up very easily to top Ds and Es. And that’s the roles that Massenet wrote for her include these notes, which is a reason why, and as I said, they’re not done very often 'cause there aren’t many sopranos who can do them. But my first excerpt is a very short one. It’s a story… The story of Thais is a story of a really a grande horizontale that’s set back in ancient Alexandria. She’s a cortisone, a prostitute. And a monk decides to convert her. And he succeeds and he takes her into the desert and she goes into a convent. And I’m going to play you one of the key moments of the opera. She walks off accompanied by nuns and he watches her walking into the distance between the palm trees on the way to the convent. And she says to him, “We shall see each other again, , "in the heavenly Jerusalem,” “so we won’t see each other again in this life.” And so as he watches her going off into the distance, he has a moment of revelation. He thinks, “Shit! All I really wanted was her body.” So I’m going to play you this moment sung by my very dear friend, Renee Doria.

And the photograph on the left is actually her 100th birthday, which was 13th of February this year. And I was there, there were only half a dozen people. That was all that was allowed at the time for the celebration. And as you can see, she was in fantastic form and she was funny and she was happy. And she then died three weeks later, which is really quite a good way to go. But I want to play you this 'cause as she turns away from Athanael, the monk, she walks off holding this high note, pianissimo high note, and I think this is one of the most beautiful notes I’ve ever heard come from a human throat.

• And I can’t resist playing you the final scene where, as I said, the monk has realised that actually he’s really only interested in fleshly things after all. And he bursts, he breaks into the convent wanting to see her, but she’s dying. And this duet, I think, it’s actually probably one of the, apart from Tristan-Isolde, it’s probably the just about most explicitly erotic duet in the history of opera. I mean, you can hear them working up, working up, working up to a tremendous, well, I can only say it’s a vocal orgasm. And she hits these two top Ds, it’s a double orgasm. And as she dies from ecstasy, she cries out, , “I see God,” and she dies. And he is left behind frustrated.

• The opera, I suppose, really ran out of steam as an art form in second half of the 20th century everywhere. There’ve been very few operas that have really managed to establish themselves in the standard repertoire. The last great French opera that did so was Poulenc’s “Les Dialogues des Carmelites,” which was premiered in 1957. I’ve seen this opera quite a few times. It’s done a lot. And I think it’s particularly the final scene of the opera that really has a overwhelmingly powerful impact on opera-goers. The story concerns a whole convent full of nuns who were guillotined in the French Revolution. And in the last scene, about 20 nuns, I think it’s 20 nuns, go to their deaths with great resignation singing a Latin hymn. And they mount the scaffold and they go towards the guillotine.

And so you’ve got 20 nuns singing together and then you have this, thunk, and then there are 19 nuns, and they just carry on singing imperturbably, and there’s another thunk, and then there are 18 nuns and so on, until it’s right down to the very last nun, the heroine of the opera Blanche de la Force, and she is the last one to go.

• I think I better stop there rather than going through all 20 nuns with you. And I don’t want to leave you on such a gloomy and despairing note. So I’m showing you this image to finish with, which was my lunch today. I’m glad to tell you that my favourite Paris restaurant, La Fresque, has just reopened. And this was a very delicious chicken tagine with pickled lemons. So into the questions, let’s see what we have.

Q&A and Comments:

“Meditations” from “Thais.” That’s an interesting variant. Yes, it is a gorgeous thing to open with.

“Le Cid.” Yes. Well, I mean, as I said there, that’s not done very often. Yeah, I think you’re probably talking about the Massenet opera, which has some very lovely things.

George Bernard Shaw, “Some opera is not as bad as it sounds.” Yes.

Let’s see. Vivian, I’m glad you’re a fellow lover of “Pelleas et Melisande.” We may be a small band there.

First Piece, “Thais,” it’s on your list, T-H-A-I-S. Yes, as I said, that’s a wonderful performance, the performance dating from the 1950s, which has a completely French cast, which is what you really want.

“Who sang…” That was Robert Merrill. So having been slightly rude about him in “The Pearl Fishers.” He was, of course, a wonderful singer, wonderful voice. Good.

Q: “You think 'Traviata’ has many singable memorable tunes as ‘Carmen’?”

A: Yes, it’s probably a bit of a toss up.

Q: “How about "Trovatore’?”

A: That’s good.

Q: “Or ‘Rigoletto’?”

A: They also have great tunes.

“I once heard that said of ‘Tor…’ Bizet said of the ‘Toreador’ song, ‘They ask for rubbish, so I wrote them rubbish.’” I really doubt that. I doubt that, for one thing. Of course, he died soon after the premier. So I think it’s an unlikely thing he would’ve said at the time. Thank you.

Q: “Is there a change of tone of the French sopranos?”

A: I think really that, yes, there might be. I mean, as I said last week, Vishnevskaya said it was much easier for her to sing in Italian than singing in Russian. But I think, you know, the way you produce your sounds is probably formed very early by the way you learn to speak. So I think most French sopranos would still sound French even if they were singing in Italian.

Q: “Do I consider Berlioz as a composer of French opera?”

A: Certainly, without a doubt, of course. And he’s a giant figure and should have been included. But you know, Gluck, even though Bohemian or Austrian, whatever he was, is a very important figure in French opera. I’m afraid there are a lot of things I just couldn’t include.

The singer I thought was singing the wrong speed, she’s called Mado Robin, spelled Robin. Amazing that, yes, of course, the French in their arrogance, the French said the best Spanish music has all been written by Frenchmen. There’s a grain of truth in that, but not much, ‘cause there’s a lot of fabulous Spanish music as well by actual Spanish composers. “Rushed to my piano to see recording of Mado Robin trying to hold that high note in my head.” It’s an A, B above high C. She could do a C above high C. And I have a recording of that. And when I talk about the female voice, I will play it to you, not that it’s a very pleasant experience and it might have your dogs in distress. What a strange addition of an advertisement for meat extract next to something like, yes, I know Liebig meat extract. That is hilarious, isn’t it?

Q: Do I prefer Don Carlo to Don Carlos?

A: Actually, to tell you the truth, well, my favourite version of the great Philip aria is actually a French version by the French bass Vanni Marcoux. He sings it in French. But actually, to tell you the truth, in the Opera House, I think I’d rather hear it in Italian than in French.

Let me see. The name of the gorgeous new opera singer is Gaelle, G-A-E-L-L-E, Arquez, A-R-Q-U-E-Z. But I’m, sure you’re going to hear a lot more of her.

Q: Did I have to wear a mask for the opera in Paris?

A: Yes, I did. I did, yeah. Which is, of course, annoying. But you know, if it’s good enough and that was so good, you forget it.

Yes. Again, Gaelle Arquez. Pol Plancon, Pol Plancon. I was going to include him, but I thought, oh God, I’m always imposing my ancient recordings on you. Pol Plancon, P-L-A-N-C-O-N. Listen to him on YouTube. He’s a kind of bass. Apparently, it’s his party piece. He could sing the entire Queen of the Night aria in falsetto.

Sadly, no one ever recorded that. “Berlioz Odyssey” was the type of the series, which we performed through 2003. Toya, of course, is a fantastic piece, really amazing piece.

“Barber of Seville,” Margaret, yes, I mean, that’s not my taste. I wouldn’t, I mean, I imagine it might be for a lot of people. It wouldn’t be for me personally, but that’s a matter of taste, I suppose.

“Check out Harriet Smithson.” And yeah, it is a great story, the great love of Berlioz’s life. He must have been a total nightmare actually as a lover.

Q: “Any comments on the Gran Teatre del Liceu and the Prince…” Liceu, one of the great theatres.

A: I’ve got a whole talk on the Liceu actually, so many great singers sang there. It’s certainly a very fascinating theatre and a very beautiful theatre.

Q: “What was the name of the piece, which you early said couldn’t reach that?”

A: It’s the Pearl Fishers duet. Oh, oh, no, no, no. It was also Pearl Fishers. It was the tenor aria from the Pearl Fishers. There is a very famous, I’m not sure if Pavarotti recorded it, but Bjorling recorded it and, I think, not very well.

“Lovely love duet, but Mephistopheles steals the show.” Musically? He certainly steals the slow dramatically. I’m not sure about musically. Somebody liking the Pearl Fishers duet. I’m glad you… Nobody’s thrown any brick backs at me so far, 'cause I’m sure that the you Bjorling-Merrill version, it’s so often heard on the radio.

Somebody’s saying that they didn’t get the goosebumps I do with the Bjorling… Well, of course Bjorling has that very special voice. What can you say? Voice is unique.

Yes, I’m sorry about the short excerpts, but you know, if I had two hours, they could be longer.

“Barcarolle. "I think you’re probably thinking about "Tales of Hoffman.” That’s another wonderful duet, of course.

Kaufmann-Hvorostovsky in concert. And, as you say, they’re very two handsome guys. That always helps.

Q: “What happens when a grand horizontal is converted by a monk? Does she become a Grand vertical?”

A: An interesting question. Well, as you can see, she died horizontally.

Yeah. Somebody liking, Renee is wonderful. High note. It’s not that high note, it’s just that it’s so beautifully taken, and it goes on forever. It’s really an amazing example of breath control.

About the French always wanting a ballet. Well, as I did mention, I think, that the grand opera required a ballet, of course, this the whole story about “Tannhauser” having to, the trouble that Wagner had with the ballet in “Tannhauser” when he rewrote the opera for Paris.

“God as the ultimate tease in the last duet.” Yes. How did I manage to work for… Well, I was introduced to her actually ages ago in, I think even in the 1970s. But I only really came to know her in the last 25 years, because I worked, her husband, Guy Dumazert had a company, I’ve recommended it to you, record company called who do very interesting historic recordings. And they used to have the most hilariously literal translations from French into English. Absolutely hilarious. And I contacted them and I said, “Do you want me to correct your translations?” And they asked me if I would do them. And I’d been working, and they’ve never paid me anything. But they used to in invite me for wonderful lunches. And, of course, I just loved being with Renee. And she’s just the most amazing woman. When you think that her first accompanist in 1942 was Reynaldo Hahn, the great composer and ex-lover of Prust.

Q: “Mentioned the French tradition of singing foreign operas into French, is that..?”

A: No, it’s not done anymore. Sadly. And there was an equivalent of course, in Germany they sang mostly everything in German, in Italy they sang everything in Italian. It was only, I suppose in Britain and America that things were not usually translated into English, but they weren’t necessarily done in the original language either. I mean, oddly Wagner in London in the early years was sung in Italian.

Just before COVID, TSO put “Thais” as opera in concert conducted by Sir Andrew Davis. Unfortunately, the Canadian soprano, Erin Wall died young just some months after.

Q: “What about 'Troyens’?”

A: Yeah, yeah. Lots to say about “Troyens.” It’s great opera.

Yeah, Matthew, Paul and Sanja, I know he’s very, very good. I’ve heard him on the radio. And I wouldn’t… Well, I’m sure people, Gedda would have his advocates. I don’t think it’s as beautiful as Vanzo.

And “Thais,” I mean, yeah, exactly. I guessed, imagine. And that’s from a natural performance having to do that, you know, reach the top D lying on her back. Well, she’d done lots of other things lying on her back. So given probably many of her best performances lying on her back.

The soprano is Renee Doria. Should be on the list, who’s 100th birthday I attended this year. “Carmelites.” So yes, that must have been a long time ago that you saw it with Joan Sutherland at the Royal Opera House. I love “Hamlet” by Ambroise Thomas. I think it’s an absolute terrific opera. I’m going to, again, bring down . I’d rather go to a performance of Ambroise Thomas’ “Hamlet.” And you have the benefit of a happy ending, ‘cause he doesn’t die at the end, or at least in one version of it. He becomes Le Roi du Danemark.

Where are we going? Thank you for all your very, very nice comments. And I so agree with Karen that Poulenc is… I just love Poulenc. I mean, he may not be a very profound or great composer, I dunno, but my life would be much sadder without Poulenc. And I absolutely love the “Gloria.” It’s most wonderful piece.

“Madam Butterfly” for your first opera. Oh dear, that must have made you cry, I imagine, very much.

Q: Question of vibrato, how much he’s taught and how much is inherent.

A: That’s a very interesting one. Needs a whole lecture to itself. I personally love rapid vibrato. I don’t like a wobble. Nobody likes wobble. But I think a rapid vibrato is an exciting feature.

“Many male costumes look like tallit, any reason?” I’m not sure I understand that.

Wagner lived in Paris with his first wife. He was very influenced by Meyerbeer’s operas. He was indeed. Although he was, you know… And Meyerbeer was very generous to him. Wagner was a nasty piece of work really. He was extremely ungrateful and nasty to, you know, he really bit the hand that fed him with Meyerbeer.

Q: What about the fun?

A: No, Barbara, last time… No,

Offenbach… Well, I think I’ve done a bit of quite enough of Offenbach and I love Offenbach, I’ve got lots of several different lectures on Offenbach I could do for you.

Let me see. Herbert saying he’s still a Verdi fanatic. Me too. As I get older, I just love and respect Verdi more and more. wrote talking about Sutherland’s Lucia, which I also caught, but later in her career.

Yes, I love the Budapest Opera House. It’s beautiful house. Much more beautiful than Vienna, I think.

Q: “Who’s the composer of..?”

A: That’s Poulenc who we’ve just been talking about. And I’m sorry it was so truncated. You need to hear the whole thing. “In the light of the size of the quantity by which Italian operas exceeds any other output, isn’t there a good reason to have much more about it than anything else?” Well, I don’t know. I think you might have some people disagreeing with you there. There’s Mozart and German opera that need a little bit of attention too. “

Q: Any thoughts about 'La Juive’?”

A: Do you know, it’s a sore point for me that I could have heard Richard Tucker sing it. He did it in concert in London. For some stupid reason… I think at the time I was too besotted with Wagner, I didn’t go and see it. I like it a lot as a score from, for… I’m actually going to talk a bit about it in a forthcoming lecture.

Somebody else liking Kaufmann-Hvorostovsky in “Pearl Fishers.”

Rameau. Yes, I could have talked about him. Lot of things I could have talked about.

This is Sharon saying, as her mother was dying and the heart monitor was, quoting, “progressive low beats, I played the "Meditation” of “Thais” on my phone and she slept away peacefully. That would…“ Yeah, I agree with you. I would be happy to die to that music.

” screw your first opera.“ Oh dear, poor you! I mean, it’s a great piece, but I’m surprised it didn’t put you off.

Oh, Atol has said, "Shawl a Jewish man wear to pray.” Of course, yes. Yes, I think, well, that’s probably, I mean, an opera set in the ancient world or ancient Egypt that they might have seen.

That’s it, I think. Ran out of questions.

Thank you all very, very much. And we move on to Russian opera on Sunday.

• [Judi] Thank you, Patrick. And thank you to everybody who joins us and we’ll see everybody tomorrow. Take care. Bye-bye.

• Bye-bye.