Trudy Gold
A Fascinating Life: A Conversation on Leslie Howard

Trudy Gold and Lady Aurelia Young - Leslie Howard: A Fascinating Life

- Well, good evening, everybody, and let me explain what’s happening this evening. We’re kind of splitting the event. Leslie Howard’s always been such a fascinating character, if you think about it, the quintessential English gentleman who then played the quintessential Southern gentleman, the effete southern gentleman in “Gone in the Wind,” the famous Ashley Wilkes. Now, but in fact, he was actually of Jewish extraction, Hungarian, half-Hungarian Jewish, and was an absolute incredible character. Now, what we aim to do this evening is I’m going to look at his career, and then I’m handing over to Lady Aurelia Young, because then she’s going to tell you a story, which is so fantastic that sort of, you know, these could only come out in conversations. Her father, of course, was the sculptor, Oscar Nemon, the fantastic sculptor who did those wonderful busts of Churchill, et cetera. But he was also a friend of Leslie Howard, and not only did he sculpt him, he also sculpted his beloved girlfriend, and there are letters between the two. So what we thought would be an interesting event for you, we will start with his film career, and then I’m going to hand over to Aurelia, and thank you, thank you, Lauren, for keeping us all sane and keeping me sane and doing that so well. And can we have a look at the first slide, please? Here you have a picture of Leslie Howard Steiner. That was his real name. He was born to Lilian Blumberg, who was an Anglo-Jew. He was actually raised as a Christian. But his paternal grandfather was a man called Ludvik Blumberg.

He was basically a trader in Germany and he made a lot of money. He came to England, he married into the upper-middle classes, and his son was Ferdinand, so he’s raised in Upper Norwood. Those of you who come from Britain will know that it’s rather a leafy suburb in southeast London. Can we see the next slide, please? There’s the plaque. And he attended Alleyn’s School. Alleyn’s is a very good English public school, so he’s living very much a middle-class life. So let’s have a look at the beautiful Alleyn’s School. Alleyn’s is of course, the sister or brother school to Dulwich College, and the two of them are amongst the best schools, best English public schools. So that’s his background. Although he’s of Jewish extraction, he very much was having an upper-middle class life. And in his family, the family name was actually Anglicised to Steiner. So he leaves school, he actually becomes a bank clerk, then he goes into the army, but he’s discharged. He was unfit to serve, so he’s discharged for medical reasons in 1916. And his ambition was always to act, and he begins his career. And can we see the first slide, please? Yes, now let me give you a bit of background to his career. Look, he’s a very good-looking character. How did he start? He actually started as so many actors did in those days, in rep. And he gradually became more and more, he honed his craft. He became more and more popular and famous. He hits the London stage, but his greatest successes are actually on Broadway. And later on, he’s going to transfer to Hollywood.

He absolutely loathed Hollywood, but nevertheless, he would go back there many, many times. And he was a very complicated man. He appears to be this effete English gentleman, but according to his very close friend, David Niven, when he was in Hollywood, he was very much at the centre of the English immigration there. And he said he was one of the cleverest men he ever knew, that behind that exterior, beat an incredibly smart character. So here you see him in one of his first films. It was a play, and then it launches him onto Hollywood. And don’t forget also, this is Vitaphone sound. Many of the careers of the silent stars were ruined because they didn’t have the accents, and English actors in particular were very, very welcome. And many stage actors, of course, make their way to Hollywood. And here you see him in the film version of his play, “Outward Bound.” Can we go on, please? He actually becomes a star in “Berkeley Square.” “Berkeley Square” begins again as a play and that really launched him into stardom. Here, you see “Murray Hill,” he wrote this play. Now, this is interesting. He preferred the stage. It has to be said, he preferred stage. But as I said, it was Hollywood and the lure of money that really kept him prisoner for a while. And Murray, he wasn’t just an actor, he was also a writer. He wrote articles for “The New Yorker,” for “The New York Times,” for “Vanity Fair.” He’s a very, very talented all-round character. Can we go on, please? Here, you see him in, “The Animal Kingdom.” Here he is with Ann Harding.

Can you see, already he’s being groomed for that sort of starring role? I mean, he played quite often with Bette Davis, and she and he became very close friends. He was quite a womaniser. He did marry, he married Evelyn Martin. But this is what he said about relationships with the women. He usually slept with his leading ladies evidently. He said, “I didn’t chase women, but I couldn’t be bothered to run away.” There were many rumours of affairs that he had with many of his leading actors. So can we go on, please? Now, this is “The Petrified Forest.” By this time, he is a very important Hollywood star and he’s more or less writing his own ticket. And he insists that Humphrey Bogart, who had already starred with him in the stage version of “Petrified Forest,” actually play Duke Mantee, the nasty gangster. Many of these films are available online you know, and if you want a great wallow, I’m sure most of you know that I prefer the films of the ‘30s and the '40s. And it is a wonderful wallow. And of course, it does star the brilliant Bette Davis. And he became very, very close to Humphrey Bogart. They were part of a sort of Hollywood set. And later on, when he was killed, when Leslie Howard’s plane was shot down, of course, Humphrey Bogart married Lauren Bacall, who’s real name was Betty Perske. She was also Jewish. And the beautiful model, she was 19 when they met, they named their first child, Leslie Howard, in memory of Leslie Howard, because he took the name Howard obviously as his stage name. Can we go on please, Lauren? He also was crazy about the classics, like so many of these actors. And he appears first on the New York stage in “Romeo and Juliet.”

And then he appears in the film version with Norma Shearer. Norma Shearer, of course, had made a very, very good marriage. She had married the man who was virtually running MGM for Louis B. Mayer. And if you look at it, if you think that “Romeo and Juliet” were meant to be teenagers, well, in 1936, those two are not teenagers. So here you have them in “Romeo and Juliet.” He came back to the New York stage to play “Hamlet,” but unfortunately John Gielgud had opened in his version of “Hamlet” a few weeks earlier. And Leslie Howard, although he was a very good actor, he didn’t have the, I suppose, the Shakespearean quality of a John Gielgud, and that particular play closed after 39 runs. But here you see him. If you think about it, Leslie Howard and Norma Shearer as the young lovers. They were teenagers, that’s what they were meant to be. Can we go on please? Now, “The Scarlet Pimpernel”. this is one of my favourite films. It was made in 1934. Now, this film was made by Alexander Korda. Now, Alexander Korda was also a Hungarian Jew and he had his own production company in London. And “The Scarlet Pimpernel” is really a propaganda film against tyranny. It’s based on the book by Baroness Orczy. And I’m sure you all know the story, it’s the story of the Effete English aristocrat, again, the type casting of Leslie Howard. And he goes off to France to rescue the aristocrats from the tyranny of the French Revolution.

And it stars the beautiful Merle Oberon who was in fact married to Alexander Korda. I love all the gossip of the movies. So the “Scarlet Pimpernel”, and the evil one in it is played by Raymond Massey. Raymond Massey, another brilliant actor who spent much of his early career playing the bad guys. It’s interesting, before the war, even in the gangster films, the good guys always win. So, his next great hit is another favourite of mine. Can we see it, please? “Pygmalion”, he was made to play “Pygmalion”, wasn’t he? And it’s Wendy Hiller, who plays of course the flower girl. And it was a brilliant, brilliant production “Pygmalion”. And of course later on, immortalised in a musical, “My Fair Lady”. And so by this time, he’s been nominated for a couple of best actors. He’s absolutely at the top of his game. Now, he also, remember he’s a writer. He also wants to direct. But “Gone With The Wind” comes up. Can we see the next poster please, Lauren? Yes, “Gone with the Wind”. Now, it was said the hype for “Gone With the Wind” was beyond imagination. It was said that Hollywood made two films “Gone with the Wind” and everything else. It was of course made by David Selznick, who was the son-in-law of Louis B. Mayer and really became one of Hollywood’s, I suppose, most creative producers. He had bought the book from Margaret Mitchell. It was a bestseller, and it’s the story of the deep south. Today, it’s quite problematic because one of the issues we are dealing with, with cinema today is of course, views have rightly changed since those days. And the depiction of the Black characters in “Gone with the Wind”, many people find totally objectionable.

Myself, I wouldn’t ban any film. I loath censorship. What I would do is I would actually use them as teaching aids because “Gone with the Wind” on many levels, is a brilliant film. And because David Selznick was the showman par excellence, he hyped it up so much that there were actually polls in newspapers, who should play Rep Butler, the hero? Everyone wanted, of course Clark Gable. And then there was the hunt for Scarlett. And of course, it was left to the unknown English actress, her beauty is absolutely unparalleled. And the point was that, how unknown was she? She was already of course, the girlfriend of Lawrence Olivier, but the whole situation was hyped up that she was actually taken, because the way they planned “Gone with the Wind”, they still hadn’t cast Scarlett. The script had been rewritten and rewritten. Ben Hecht, the brilliant screenwriter was involved in a lot of it. Who on Earth will play Scarlett O'Hara? And the casting couch was in the south. There were so many terrible stories that came out of it. David Selznick is already burning the back lot of Atlanta. When the story goes that his brother, Myron Selznick, who was Hollywood’s greatest agent, brings the beauties, Vivien Leigh to see the “Burning of Atlanta”. And if you actually carefully watch the Burning of Atlanta scene in “Gone With the Wind”, you will see they’re burning the back lot at MGM. Louis B. Mayer had a very fractious relationship with his son-in-law. David Selznick desperately wanted Olivia de Havilland and Clark Gable, and the price was 10% of the film rights.

So later on, David Selznick went bankrupt mainly over his ridiculous affair and marriage with Jennifer Jones. He then spent the whole time looking for vehicles for her. He made a couple of great films post World War, but never at the same depth as this. But later on, his children did get the money through the father-in-law. So I love these kind of stories. But Ashley Wilkes, everybody knew that the part of Ashley Wilkes, the effete southern gentleman should be played by Leslie Howard, but he didn’t want to play it. He was stamping his feet. He thought it was a ridiculous notion. He didn’t want to be second fiddle to Clark Gable anyway. But basically, he was bribed. He was bribed that if he played Ashley Wilkes in “Gone with the Wind”, then he could actually direct a film he was desperate to do, “Intermezzo” with Ingrid Bergman. He never even read the script. He didn’t get on very well with Vivien Leigh. But when you watch the film today, it’s absolutely seamless. And the part he plays, the man that Scarlett thinks she loves, but of course doesn’t really, he does play the effete southern gentleman, which is very much a reprise of his effete English gentleman. And it’s probably his most famous role, Ashley Wilkes in “Gone with the Wind”. And of course, it was a barnstormer of a success. It swept the Oscars and it came out in 1940. It’s fascinating the kind of films that come out in 1940. Now, let’s have a look at “Intermezzo” because this is the film he directed with Ingrid Bergman. Sorry, he produced it, I beg your pardon. He produced it with his friend David Selznick.

He became very fond of David Selznick. He wanted to direct, but he was allowed to assistant produce, that’s right, but that was the price, he saw himself in the end as a producer and as a director. But then something happened, war had broken out, and he was a patriotic English gentleman, and he came back to England. And it was in England that he began to make some very important films for the war effort. Can we see a couple of the slides? “Pimpernel Smith”, this is such a good war film because it’s about an effete English archaeologist, very much based on if you think about the Scarlett Pimpernel who keeps on going to Germany to rescue people. And he also was involved in the “49th Parallel”, which was another important war film. So we don’t know really what happened around the time of his death because he was also, and I’m going to hand over to Aurelia soon and she’s going to talk about the village that he lived in when he was in England, because that’s where he met her father. And also in the “49th Parallel” in a very small part, was the woman that he was madly in love with, Violette Cunningham, who he’d met whilst making “Pigmalian”. She was actually the secretary to the producer, and they lived openly together during “Gone with the Wind” and “Intermezzo”. Sorry, she appeared in “Pimpernel Smith” and also in the other war film he made in 1941 called “First of the Few”. So he’s really involved in propaganda films. And I’m going to tell you what happened to him, how he died, and then we’re going to go over to Aurelia. Can we just stop at the last picture please if you don’t mind, Lauren? Thank you, thank you.

What happened was, he was actually in Portugal, ostensibly to promote the British cause. You’ve got to remember, Portugal was neutral, and it was also a haven of spies, and it was an incredible destination for people trying to flee from Hitler’s grasp. So officially, he’s over there promoting the British cause, he’s raising money, he’s raising money for all sorts of events. On the 1st of June, he takes the BOAC flight 777, which is Lisbon to Bristol, and it’s shot down over the Atlantic. There were 17 fatalities. This is quite a mystery story. The service operated four times a week. We also know on board, was a man called Wilfrid Israel. Wilfrid Israel was another hero. Wilfrid Israel was an Anglo German department store owner. He owned Israel department stores in Germany. And from 1933 onwards, all his Jewish employees, a third of his employees were Jewish. He had a huge conglomerate. He paid them a two year salary to enable them to get out. But he kept on going back to Germany, and he was involved in the Kinder Transport. He was an art collector. He was a very aesthetic character, a friend of Churchill’s, he was quite a character. And he was on board, he was killed. Also on board was Tyrrell Mildmay Shervington, who was the director of Shell-Mex. But we know he was also an operative of SOE. So why was the plane shot down? And there have been many films and documentaries on it. You should look it up. I still think the jury is out on it. Ironically, the news of his death was published in the “Times Newspaper” at the same time that they reported the death of Major William Martin. Those of you who know your films will know the man who never was. The man who never was, it was Operation mince meat.

They created a character. This was Churchill’s plan. They wanted to make the Germans think that the Allied invasion was going to happen at a different point. So they actually created this man. They found a body tragically of someone who had been killed and they strapped to his wrist, the extraordinary plans for the invasion, and the Germans bought it, which is quite extraordinary. So now though, having given you an overview of the life of an incredible character, I’m handing over to Aurelia who’s going to talk about a completely different story, the story of her extraordinary father and his relationship with Leslie Howard. So thank you Aurelia.

• Thank you Trudy. And thank you for asking me about my father Oscar Nemon and why he sculpted Leslie Howard. Can we have the whole picture up? Yes, there he is. And so thank you for asking me to talk about my father, and why he sculpted Leslie Howard, and also his love of Violette Cunnington, and the mystery of the missing bust. In this photograph, you see Oscar Nemon with Leslie Howard looking at his bust. I’ve just watched “Gone With The Wind”. I was very happy to see how accurate my father was in his portrayal of the great film star. Oscar Nemon was born in 1906. Here we are. Here he is. Here is Baby Oscar with his mother, my grandmother, Eugenia Neumann and older sister, Bella. Oscar was born in Osijek in Croatia, which was then still part of the Austria-Hungarian Empire, but was soon to become Yugoslavia. His Jewish father, Mavro Neumann was a Hungarian industrial chemist who worked for his father-in-law, Leopold Adler at the Adler factory in Osijek. Mavro Neumann married Eugenia Adler, Leopold Adler’s eldest daughter seen here. Oscar was a talented young sculptor. Here he is working on a portrait of his grandmother, Johanna Adler. When he was a small boy, Johanna Adler gave her grandson clothes to suck when she took him to the synagogue on Yom Kippur. When Nemon was 17, he left his Croatian home to study sculpture Vienna. Can we have the next picture please? Here we are. Where he met many members of the musical community. Here he is aged 18, making a relief of the Italian singer Domenico Viglione Borghese.

He has a happy, cheeky smile. In 1924, Nemon met one of Sigmund Freud’s disciples, Dr. Paul Federn, who was anxious to commission a bust Freud. But Freud refused to be sculpted as he said he was too busy to sit for a sculptor. Federn told Nemon that if ever Freud changed his mind, he, Nemon would be the sculptor. Nemon left Vienna after a year to continue his studies in Brussels. This is Nemon’s wonderful hubris portrayal of the Belgium sculptor Pierre de Soete. You can see de Soete wrote a dedication to Nemon’s mother Eugenia, praising the talents of the young sculptor. In his memoirs, Nemon wrote, “I had now moved into a studio close to the royal palace "and this was the springtime of my life. "I was meeting artists and poets of my own generation. "My joy reached zenith when I received a telegram "from Dr. Federn in Vienna, "which said, 'Simply come at once.’” This was 1931, Nemon was 25. He hurried to Vienna to sculpt Sigmund Freud. Nemon sculpted Freud in the garden of his summer residence just outside Vienna. And this is the carved bust, which you’ll see in a minute. The carved wooden bust, Freud kept and took with him when he escaped England in 1938. It can now be seen in the Freud Museum in London. Nemon left Belgium in 1936 to try his luck in England, where he set up a studio in Kinnerton Street just off Belgrave Square in London. We leave Nemon for a while and meet my mother Patricia, who is the indirect reason why Leslie Howard came into Nemon’s life. Here is Patricia, when she was a debutante painted by the artist Wilfrid de Glehn. Patricia was the only child of Lieutenant Patrick Villiers-Stuart and his wife Constance, prosperous Norfolk landowners. Here is Patricia, aged five with her parents, and maternal grandmother in the garden of their home in Norfolk in 1915.

When Patricia was 26, she had a nervous breakdown and was sent to be analysed and helped by Sigmund Freud’s English disciple, Dr. Ernest Jones. This is a sketch Nemon made of Ernest Jones before he went on to make a bust of him. Dr. Jones introduced Patricia to Nemon. On the face of it, there were an unlikely match. She was an English debutant, an heiress to an estate in Norfolk, whilst he was a penniless refugee who spoke very little English. Patricia fell in love with the charismatic and intelligent sculptor. Nemon couldn’t speak English, so they talked to each other in French. They made their home in Oxford. Here they are together on the steps of the Ashmolean Museum. This liaison outraged Patricia’s parents who tried every method they could to stop the relationship. In 1938, Colonel Villiers-Stuart asked his solicitor Faris, if there was any way in which Nemon could be banned from the country. Faris wrote to the home office, “We have been approached "by our client Colonel Patrick Villiers-Stuart "in the following circumstances. "Captain Villiers-Stuart has one daughter "who will ultimately inherit the family property, "which is of considerable value. "She’s a young lady of autistic temperament "who has contracted an acquaintance "with one Oscar Neumann, a Yugoslavian Jewish artist.” When the home office failed to deport Nemon, Patricia’s parents tried another tap. In December of 1939, they alleged that Nemon was a spy for the SS.

I found the allegation in Nemon’s alien file in the Royal Archives at Kew, “Our attention has recently been drawn to an alien "of Yugoslav nationality named Oscar Neumann, "who also uses the alias of Nemon, "has been reported to us as being connected directly "or indirectly with a German SS "and to be engaged in espionage in this country. "Our source, which is a delicate one, "is located abroad and would appear to be quite uninterested "as far as Neumann is concerned. "While we are not present in a position "to confirm the allegations, "we nevertheless consider the source "to be sufficiently reliable "to warrant our regarding Neumann "as being not above suspicion, "and as a person whose continued presence in this country "is not to be encouraged. The home office then ordered Nemon to leave the country by January, 1940. Instead of obeying this draconian order, Nemon left London and slipped away to the country where he went to stay at the Abinger Hatch Hotel in Surrey. This is a letter Nemon wrote to his mother from the hotel. He wrote his mother in French, which is rather surprising. Here is Nemon with his mother and younger brother Deze in Yugoslavia a year earlier. He never saw them again. During the war, they were both captured by Nazi sympathisers and taken to Banjica a brutal concentration camp in Serbia, which had a reputation of torturing its inmates. Eugenia and Deze were both put up against a wall and shot. Poor Nemon, how terrible to discover that his beloved mother had died in such a barbaric way.

Whilst Nemon was in Abinger, he was taught English by Florence Kahn, a German Jewish American actress who was an excellent French speaker. Florence Kahn was married to the author and caricaturist Max Beerbohm. Beerbohm thought that Nemon and his wife were having much too much fun speaking French together and decided to take over the English lessons. Nemon was not too keen on this development and wrote in his memoirs that Sir Max was almost a stage version of a retired colonel, very well groomed, very correct, very stereotyped in his mannerisms and was not keen to learn English as a form of drill on a parade ground. Max Beerbohm made this sketch of Nemon. Also staying at the Abinger Hatch Hotel was Violette Cunnington, Leslie Howard’s beautiful young mistress. Leslie Howard and his family lived nearby in the neighbouring village of Westcott. I presume Violette had come to be near her lover. Violette had a small part to play in the film, "Pimpernel Smith”, Trudy has just told us. Here she is as a shop girl in “Pimpernel Smith”. While staying at the hotel, Nemon made a bust of Violette. According to Ian Colvin in his book “Flight 777”, Leslie Howard was so impressed by the bust of Violette that he asked Nemon to make a portrait of him. Here it is. And here are Leslie and Violette in Nemon’s London studio with Nemon’s clay bust of Leslie Howard. I don’t know who the other men are in the photograph. I’d love to know if anybody recognises any of them. In the autumn of 1942, both Howard and Violette became seriously ill. Howard recovered, but sadly, Violette died of pneumonia on November the third.

She was only 32. In January, 1943, the heartbroken Leslie Howard wrote to Nemon, “Dear Mr. Nemon, "I don’t know if you’ve heard the sad news "that my beloved Violette had passed away three months ago. "I’m now trying to find all the photographs "and other records of her, "and I remember you made a little bust of her, "or I think you did. "Could you let me know if you have it, "and when I could see it? "I’m searching for anything "which will give me an impression of her. "Perhaps you could say something for memory, "knowing her lovely personality. "Kind regards, yours sincerely, Leslie Howard.” The following month, Leslie had written to Nemon again, “My dear Mr. Nemon. "Will you give me a ring as soon as you conveniently can "at Farnham Common 267 "to discuss further the various work you are going to do "for me and Violette. "Have you started to remake the bust? "I do hope so because I’m anxious to have it "as soon as possible. "I’m even wondering whether it is necessary "and if I can keep the original casting "to which you might possibly add the shoulder "as you suggested. "If you could come and spend a night with me, "I would show you the Gardens of Remembrance "that we talked about. "But I’m less inclined on revisiting them "to do the thing which we discussed. "I’ll explain the various reason too when I see you "and I think you will agree with me. "I’m much more inclined to use the money required "for the purchase of such a garden, "which is considerable towards buying the little house "where Violette lived.

"This seems to me a much more personal "and attractive kind of memorial. "The garden is not bad and has a charming rose pergola, "which could be improved. "A statue of some sort would be quite lovely there. "It would be near to me at all time and could be seen "by Violette’s friends in a personal way, "instead of in a more or less public institution. "All this we could discuss if you come and stay for a day. "Please gimme a ring. "I’m usually there in the morning. "Regards, Leslie Howard.” I don’t know if Leslie Howard ever saw the bust of Violette as the aeroplane he was travelling in was shot over the Bay of Biscay on June the first, 1943. According to this press cutting, my father said that Leslie Howard had a premonition of his own death. Nemon is quoted as saying, “Leslie had become interested in spiritualism recently. "As I worked on the bust, "he would talk quietly of survival after death.” Nemon said that Leslie was the perfect model. He personified the sensitivity of the artist. Nemon’s bust of Leslie Howard was on display at an exhibition in London just after his death. You can see it listed as item number four. Many of these busts are missing, including the bust of the young King Peter of Yugoslavia, number one. The bust on the left is of three year old Guy Gottschalk, the son of Max Gottschalk.

When I visited the Jewish museum in Brussels, I was told that Max Gottschalk was considered a hero in Belgium for saving many Jews during the war. In 1944, Nemon received a letter from his solicitors indicating that Nemon would be paid 175 pounds for the bust of Leslie Howard and Violette on the condition that the busts are handed over and that no photographs or any other representation of the busts or of the sitters shall in any way be used. I haven’t had any luck in finding the bust of Leslie Howard or Violette. And sadly, Leslie Howard’s grandchildren aren’t able to help. So if anyone watching this talk thinks they might know where they are, please do get in touch. If you would like to know more about Nemon’s life, this is my biography of my father. Leslie Howard and Nemon had at least four things in common. They both had Jewish Hungarian fathers. They both changed their original surnames. Leslie from Steiner to Howard, Nemon from Neumann to Nemon. They were both accused of being spies and they both had lots of mistresses. One of my grandfather’s sisters married a Steiner, so maybe we are indirectly related. I hope so. And now back to Trudy, thank you. Trudy, thank you for inviting me to talk about my father and Leslie Howard.

Q&A and Comments:

Q - Shall we see if there are any questions. Can I ask you one to start with? I think it’s quite likely that the family, his wife and children, they obviously didn’t want to know this story, did they? And they probably didn’t want it to be public of Violette?

A - Yes, probably, I think that Leslie Howard’s wife was probably quite upset by his relationship with Violette. And she was the mother to his children so .

• Yeah, yeah, no, they were both obviously incredibly attractive womanisers, yes? This is from Anne Tate, “I’ve heard that Howard suffered PTSD "from his military service "and was advised to study acting as therapy. "He most wanted to write and did, "but accurately said "that writing required greater application.” And from Renny.

• [Aurelia] That’s nice.

Q - Renny says, “Lauren Bacall was a cousin to Shimon Peres.” Yes, of course, that’s another interesting story, isn’t it? And Margaret is saying, “I live near Abinger. "It’s lovely to hear this bit of history connected "with the village.” Are there any other? Oh yes, and Gail is congratulating you on the presentation. “You said that Howard died in ‘43, but the letter is '45.” I think that was the solicitor’s letter wasn’t it?

A - That’s the solicitor’s letter coming to collect, going to the studio.

• Right, and this is from Susan, “Outstanding and heartwarming to hear such a personal story.” Oh, that’s lovely.

• [Aurelia] Thank you, Susan.

Q - And a lot of people are saying how interesting it is. But have we got any more questions? That’s what I’m interested in 'cause it’s fascinating how we decided to do this really, isn’t it? We were chatting one day and it all kind of came out and because I find Leslie Howard such a fascinating character anyway, and then to marry the two together, it can only happen on lockdown really can’t it?

A - No, lockdown-

• And already we’ve had someone getting in touch who lives near the village, who knows what can come out of it. One of the things I love best about lockdown is the stories I get from people, that are echoed by something someone said. I mean, in a way Aurelia, your parents, they’re such fascinating characters themselves, aren’t they? And so very, very different. The middle European sophisticated character and the very beautiful, I would imagine very fragile English rose, yeah.

• Yes, my father really actually needed somebody a little bit more practical than my mother. My mother could neither cook. Well, he really wanted somebody who would wash his shirts and cook his meals, but she lived in the world of poetry and it was very difficult because her parents cut her off with very little money. There was no money to buy a house. We lived in an old army hut that the Italian prisoners of war had vacated in 1947. So then my parents somehow acquired. It was made at asbestos and beaverboard. And that’s where I first 21 years of my life. My father .

Q - We have a question about your father’s art. “Was it rare that your father worked in wood?” asks Louise.

A - Very rare, that’s the only carved work that I’ve found. And it’s such a beautiful bust of Freud. I wish he’d done more. But mostly he worked with clay really well. He always worked with clay or plasticine.

Q - Did he talk much to you about some of the characters he sculpted that he didn’t write in his memoirs?

A - Not really, the person he found most difficult was Montgomery, Viscount Montgomery. That statue can be seen in White Hall, opposite number 10, Downing Street. Montgomery was very sort of tightlipped. Most people opened up rather like at the hairdressers as it were, but Montgomery was very, very guarded. So that’s the person he find most difficult That he talked about.

Q - A lot of people have written about Montgomery’s rather strange personality though, haven’t they?

A - Yes, I think. His sexuality .

• There’s stories, aren’t they? “Did Leslie Howard acknowledge "his Jewish ancestry,” says Gita? He didn’t deny it. What it did draw him to, I think he saw himself as an outsider in many ways. He was fiercely clever, wasn’t he? On one level, he’s the Hollywood star, but he’s really the actor, the writer. And who was Leslie Howard? I think he’s a bit of an enigma myself. “What drew Nemon to travel to England?” asks Gene. Wasn’t Europe the centre of art?

• His mistress, his mistress. I think in Belgium in Brussels, he sculpted the king and the queen and lots of the important people. And also, I think he had affairs with few too many people and annoyed too many husbands. But his mistress, suddenly, one of his mistress anyhow, suddenly married this very rich Englishman whose male lover had left him all her money. No, his money. Anyhow, it’s rather complicated. Anyhow, the mistress married this very rich, young Englishman and brought Nemon to England with her and fed him up in her house, which was handy.

• He sounds a wonderful character. What he would’ve been like as a father is another story.

• Well, he was actually a very good, he was a very, very loving father. Quite dictatorial, but I don’t know what he was like as a husband might have been a bit more difficult.

• Yeah, that’s more of an interesting question.

• But a father, he was a devoted father really to his rather strange English children that weren’t really quite what he expected to have.

Q - Did you know much of your Jewish background, May I ask when you were growing up?

A - No, I didn’t know. I mean, I knew my father’s Jewish, but when I was born during the war, it was still not sure whether Hitler would invade. And my father was and sort of completely sort of English girl, and so they didn’t get married, so that Nemon, as it were, the children weren’t Jewish. And also I think after the war, I think he was still slightly worried. had been killed. His relatives have all been killed. He didn’t want his children to be killed. So it wasn’t actually until he was dying, my mother was dying of double pneumonia and pleurisy and my kind Ernst Chain saved her life with penicillin that they got married when there was no chance of sort of Hitler.

Q - So he did mix with other immigrants though, didn’t he?

A - Yes, very much.

Q - Yeah, so that must have been the social circle. Did your mother ever talk about that?

A - No, really, we were packed off as children to Norfolk, to stay with our English grandparents. It worked out quite strange. We lived in an asbestos, army hut outside Oxford in the term time. But in the holidays, we went to live in a grand mansion in Norfolk .

Q - Extraordinary, and Margaret says, “Where was the army hut?”

A - It was on Boars Hill. Well, the site is still there. That was Nemon’s studio. You can visit Nemon studio. My sister-in-law has made a wonderful Nemon studio and archive on Boars Hill. It’s called Pleasant Land. They called the army huts. There were two army huts stuck together. Nemon used one at his studio, and we lived in the other. And they called our home pleasant Land, because my mother was devoted to William Blake, and “Shall we build Jerusalem in England’s green "and pleasant Land?” So you can visit, if you go on the website. Well, if you put Oscar Nemon, you’ll find the website, and you can visit pleasant Land on Boars Hill just outside Oxford.

Q - Extraordinary, oh, this is a nice one. “What would your father have thought "of modern cinema today?” ask Jennifer.

A - Oh, I think he would’ve absolutely loved it. I don’t know what he would’ve thought of today, 'cause I don’t really know about cinema today. Is it very odd today?

• It’s not the same art of the '30s and '40s, actually.

• Oh, I see, yes. Well, he actually liked opera overly, but he did like cinema. He liked football, cinema, opera. Everything and music I grew up hearing. Well, we only had two records, Mendelssohn’s, “Elijah” and Beethoven’s “Spring Sonata” with “Kreutzer” on the other side. But he loved, yeah, he was a very intelligent person.

Q - Well, it was obvious. Now, this is from Betty and I think you’ve already answered this, “Did your grandparents ever accept your father?”

A - Never.

Q - And did you have a relationship with your mother’s parents?

A - No, they never ever accepted him. He was never invited to my mother’s Norfolk home. My grandparents accepted the children. Although when my brother was born, my grandmother sent her maid, her Norfolk young maid to look at the baby in Oxford to see if it was black or Jewish and report.

Q - Oh God, there’s a few more questions. Monty asked, “Do you have siblings?”

A - Yeah, well, I had an older brother, Falcon who sadly died some time ago. And a younger sister, Electra. My sister-in-law, Alice took over from Falcon and has turned, as I say, the house on Boars Hill into a studio. Yep, sorry, next question.

Q - And this is from Margaret, “I wonder if your father knew the sculptor Paul Harmon. "He was a German Jewish refugee, "lived in St. Johns Wood opposite her grandmother.” Does that ring any bell?

A - No, I don’t. I’m afraid, I don’t know the answer, but how interesting.

• Anyway, that’s all the questions, Aurelia. Thank you so much for doing this today. For me, it’s been great fun.

• Well, thank you Trudy for inviting me.

• And I will speak to you very soon. And Lauren, thank you for sorting everything out as ever.